I realize this thread will create a lot of controversy.
Over the past five years I have worked very hard to develop clubs and increase membership in USMS. The very fabric of my work and others in this area is building relationships and comradairre within the LMSC and or Club. Small clubs and large teams are proud of their "elite" swimmers and boast of their successes. With this said, it is very disturbing to me as I read through the FINA World Championships Physch Sheets to see the number of elite swimmers "jumping ship" to other clubs to swim on "elite" relays. If USMS had "Team USMS" I would have no problem with everyone coming together for a team effort. I don't have a problem with four guys coming together who swam in college using the Worlds as reunion of sorts. Where I have problem is the swimmer or swimmers who have been a member of a club or LMSC for years and because of individual egos leaves his team. What this says to me is our "elite" swimmers ego is more important than his or her club. How do you think the other 3 swimmers who normally swims on the relay with the "elite" swimmer feels. We are good enough througout the year, however we are not good enough for the Worlds. Instead of swimming for his or her club so all members of the club can be proud of the "elite" swimmers accomplishments, it is more important to this swimmer he or she represent someone else at the Worlds for personal gratification. If the relay team does win and breaks a WR the record does not show USMS as the record holder, but the name of a club the swimmer transferred too.... what a shame...
It is regretable I bring up this discussion, but it tears at the very fabric of the USMS mission regarding building club or LMSC relationships...I realize what these swimmers are doing is within the rules.. I just think it is wrong.
Mel
Ande:
I am going to respond and link the post of a year ago because I had these discussions with both of the Smith's and don't want to make a trip down memory lane.
A question I have is what is Team TYR? Is it like there version of what Speedo does with there stars? Will all of the team members be wearing the latest modern TYR suits with the advanced technology? I not kidding here. I saw some of the swimmers on the team and they are all excellent and I sure the Team TYR might be the club with the most World Records in the meet.
The reason I bring this up is because maybe this manufacturer wants to use the masters market the way Speedo, Nike, and Arena do with Olympic swimmers. I ask of the Smith's not to be funny here but are they sponsoring all of you as a total team or are they just letting you use the equipment, such as suits, goggles, caps, warm ups, etc.
I guess in today's professional world of competitive swimming that maybe someone sees a potential to get into the masters market and sell there product. With people like Yana, Erik Vendt, and Morcova they can add masters swimmers to the advertisement. Like a quote of "Our swimmers set XXX FINA World Records using the XXX TYR".
The CASA in Ontario had a rule in the old days that you had to wait one year to get permission to change clubs. But now with the steady moving from one place to another that would not be feasible. The swimmers had to swim unattached for a year.
I can certainly see what you are saying Mel. We are talking about Masters swimming here, there is no prize money involved and no million dollar advertisement contracts waiting for the gold medal winners. If the three team members who were left behind feel strongly about this they should simply refuse to swim relays with that individual when they return from Stanford.
I respect your opinion Mel . . . but for a "world championship" meet, if a group of diverse elite swimmers decide to join together in an effort to win or set a world record, more power to them. The choice to do so may or may not be difficult depending on the home team dynamic . . . but I certainly cannot begrudge the elite swimmer for moving in an effort to obtain a relay gold.
I speak as a slower swimmer who understands this dynamic when my teammates invite other faster swimmers to join them at events like the Maui Channel relay. For those to whom competition and winning is a priority, this is the only logical step. I think most of us non-elite folks can accept and appreciate this fact.
my 2 cents.
Slow Show......competing is far more about losing than winning, I've had far more experience with that than breaking world records.....and I'm happy to shake the hand of the person/team that beats me (us)......and use it for motivation to train harder for next time.
And by the way......do you know what your talking about with regard to "hand picked" teams? John and I are constantly harrassing old farts like us who have not been in the sport for years to get back in the pool and come out to play.....case in point was getting Rowdy to show up for a relay in Indy.....
And in case you want to throw around the "elite" crap for going after guys like Rowdy, I'm happy to send you a list with probably 100 names on it of folks I've tried to get into the sport and competing that can't even make the time standards.....just becuse I like this sport and want it to grow.....your free to do the same......the morethe merrier!
Frank....the folks at TYR have been great and yes we have gotten some awesome gear but we're paying our own relay fees, entries, etc. But as John pointed ou for me swimming with some great old farts (and young) like Saeger is what its all about (by the way....I'm the fat one on that relay!)
for many the $12 parking issue is a non issue
for me it's just a nuisance but for some who don't make or have much, it's challenge.
haven't read about the pool length crisis yet
ande
Originally posted by scyfreestyler
I must say that between this issue, the parking issue ( a non-issue in my book), and the pool length issue this meet is going to bring about a boatload of controversy. God only knows what the next issue will be.
Paul:
I thought that SMU guys and Texas guys were not a good mix. Well maybe 25 years ago. Because TYR is not paying for your entries or relays, would they get mad if you decided to wear a Fastskin II for one of your swims?
Despite my earlier "cherry picking" comment, I'm on the fence about this issue. If team points were at stake then, yeah, it would be more of an issue to jump ship like this. But I can certainly see someone's side who has a great group that has actually been training together with the intent of going after a relay mark only to get beat out by a hand-picked group who've been training thousands of miles apart.
Originally posted by Sabretooth Tiger
I respect your opinion Mel . . . but for a "world championship" meet, if a group of diverse elite swimmers decide to join together in an effort to win or set a world record, more power to them. The choice to do so may or may not be difficult depending on the home team dynamic . . . but I certainly cannot begrudge the elite swimmer for moving in an effort to obtain a relay gold.
I've never understood it either. It's only a record, why shouldn't the fastest people be able to get together and swim. I find it also leaves out the unattatched swimmers as well. I think they should even see if the four best swimmers that come should do a couple of relays. The whole team idea is strange to me, we're not in school or anything like that anymore.
