I think I'm going to have to disagree a bit with my Longhorn teamates Mr. Commings and The Raz on this subject. It's not good to rely on someone coming out of the woodwork in years to come or simply counting on cycles of ebb and flow over years in the sport.
I have been to many age group meets with my kids the last 4 years. In Georgia, Colorado.... and my home the Great state of Ohio, and enrollment of young boys (ages 8-14) is down further than at any time I can remember in the sport. Gone are the days when I grew up and boys ALWAYS outnumber girls in the sport, and its not merely because more girls are swimming now. It's because boys are interested in other sports..... many of which are easier training sports in my opinion.
This is NOT good for the future of men's swimming. I have a bad feeling the next Michael Phelps will be lured into Soccer or some other sport over the coming years... if not already. Swimming.... particularly the governing body USS.... does NOT do an adequate job marketing the sport to the general public during non Olympic years. We ride too heavily on the success of our Olympic performances in hopes of expanding enrollment, and then every 4 years it dies out quickly. With the added cuts of men's swimming programs in the NCAA Div. I level the growth and continued success of US mens swimming in my opinion is in jeopardy over the next 8-12 years. Michael Phelps is a lucky find for the US. I strongly suggest you take a look at some heat sheets for age group meets in your area. You will likely find that there are about 1/2 to 2/3rds the number of boys heats compared to girls heats in the younger age groups. It's shocking. You're looking at the future of our Olympic team in these reduced heats. You can't rely on a Rowdy Gaines to come into the sport late (like age 13) and dominate especially when the numbers are down so much.
USS needs to find money for a larger national campaign with TV time. Why is it I have NEVER been contacted by USS swimming to donate money?! Why is there NO marketing campaign to solicit funds from ex US swimmers from the past 40 years ?!
In my opinion, this is an all out war against soccer and the evil Big 3 sports. For example...... Australia is hurtin' if you take away their 2 big guns Hacket and Thorpe, there is virtually no one in the pipeline that will take over. The US is in a similar but lessor position. It was truly embarassing that the US had absolutely NO ONE in the 100 free at the Olympics. Let me say it again....
IT WAS TRULY EMBARASSING THAT THE US HAD ABSOLUTELY NO ONE IN THE 100 FREE IN THE FINALS AT THE OLYMPICS !
We should OWN that event ! The 100 free IS United States Swimming. It is our history! Our 400m free relay should NEVER lose at the Olympics or World Games as it is a reflection of depth and speed in our programs.
Face it, our volume of great sprinters are pretty bad right now and thats a reflection of basic athleticism and talent by taking (stealing) "athletes" from other sports with raw speed. Gary Hall saved his butt and the US in the 50 free at Greece, but let's face it, he's an archeology find and not a reflection of up an coming talent. We're relying on someone that probably peaked 2 Olympics ago in the sprints.
The picture is not good for the growth of US men's swimming, and we definitely need to do something about it.
John Smith
Geek, Gull, or anybody know this guy. I went back to where this picture came from and its was some guy named Mark from Maryland. He goes by freedivemd. He posted it of himself to show its ok to wear the speedo at anytime and anyplace. Since it was 2 years ago he posted this, he has never posted anything else. Maybe we should stop posting this picture so much because he is becoming famous for it. On the other hand anybody that sends a photo of himself like this is fair game to the USMS posters.
Former Member
Originally posted by dorothyrde
cRAIG YOU ARE right about that. My children go to a school without a swim team. I remember JR High age, my son telling me some of his friends were questioning him "Do you REALLY where those speedos?' and saying no way would they.
I can remember some boys saying that about 15 years ago. And I can remember some boys saying that about 25 years ago. And I can remember some boys saying that about 35 years ago. (Ulp! Did I just admit to being that old? :eek: )
The bottom line is that teenage boys who have never worn speedo-type briefs have always imagined that they must be unbearably embarassing to wear. The teenage boys who actually wear them know it's not like that, and try to explain that to their friends, but the message never quite seems to get through.
Still, it's been that way for a long, long time, and during that time, competitive swimming has grown in popularity for both girls and boys!
Bob
Former Member
Originally posted by aquageek
You are lucky. Our summer league meets last 3-5 hours, twice a week. These are duel meets, not the championship meet at the end of the season.
It would be a real problem if they took that long here, because many of them start at 6pm, and if they lasted 5 hours, that would mean they'd finish in the dark. Many of them are held on lakes where there's little or no artificial lighting.
The length of the summer swim league meets is held down by the fact that they are composed purely of sprint events (200 freestyle relay and 200 medley relay are the longest events they have), and by the fact that there's only one heat for each sex and age group.
The length of the high school meets is held down by the fact that they don't have age groups, and therefore there is only one boys' and one girls' heat for each event.
Bob
Former Member
Originally posted by aquageek
I know a whole lot more than 10 young men. None think swimming is a "gay" sport. What is a gay sport by the way? Do they also think Lance Armstrong and cycling is "gay" because they wear tight little outfits also? What about football and their tight little pants, do they find that gay also? Let's not forget that baseball might also be a gay sport because their pants are usually tight. Same for all track and field.
Please don't assume your limited experience with a tiny group of boys is indicative of all youth. It would help if you could substantiate your claim of homophobia by passing along studies that bear this out, not your small isolated sample of personal experience.
I think to boys is a pretty big sample especially since they all have basically the same conclusion. They don't think football is a gay sport. I think underneath their opinions are true, society-wide ideas about homophobia in young men. I haven't seen any studies about homophobia in young men. I can tell you that from there attitudes, to me, there seems to be a real misunderstanding about swimming and sexually that is probably held by a large number of boys in there early to midteens.
All of these boys live in a university town where there is no team in the uniersity but all of the high schools have very strong teams including the small and new Catholic schoool. Plus the Y has had a strong influence on swimming inthe community for at least twenty years. Because of this, I thought it odd that they had such negative attitudes towards swimmers & swimming. I've asked them why they think this, and they almost all echoe the attitudes and dedication of the boys they know who swim, the way boys look in speedos, and the way swimmers' parents are constantly talking about their hard working kids. I will say that all of these boys are very good baseball players and are on at least onetraveling team and one league team.
I think this would be a great study. If you woudl liek to fund, I'll do it.
Former Member
Perhaps we can conclude that 10 year old boys in Galesburg, IL who are very good baseball players (and know Craig Johnson) view swimming as a gay sport.
I thought I'd killed this thread already. I may have to post another photo of geek.
Former Member
Originally posted by Rob Copeland
Craig,
So you’re saying your surveyed sample, thought swimmers were gay because of the “dedication of the boys” and because the boys parents are proud of them???? Dude, find a better representation of youths. They may be good baseball players, but they exhibit a very fragile grasp on reality.
Yeah, seriously. Swimming is FAR from Gay. Maybe it's the wearing a Speedo, (which I really don't mind in the slightest) but whoever thinks Swimming is Gay ought to get their head checked. :mad: :mad:
Former Member
The sample is not from Galesburg but where the University of Illinois is located. In Galesburg, most of the ouung guys I know are swimmers. I really don't know what there attitudes towards swimming are. also, I don't know them vewry well. The boys I do know all have a surprisingly negative view of swimmers. None of them are swimmers. I think that is very important.
I'm not the message only the messenger. I'm only saying the attitude I notice. I do though think that from the universality of these boys' attitudes that there are probably many young boys with the same attitude. Rmember, I've asked these boys why they think the way they do. I was very surprised. Some of these boys had fathers who swam in college. They live in an area of the state where swimming seems to be a big sport that is well funded by the school systems.
We must wonder why these boys gave such negative responses. This thread is wondering why men's swimming is in truble. The young boys got this idea from somewhere. Also, these boys go to a pool almost every day duringthe summer to mess around.
Former Member
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
I do though think that from the universality of these boys' attitudes that there are probably many young boys with the same attitude.
I agree with you on one point--that view is universal among the ten boys you questioned. By the way, did you question them individually or collectively?
