There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
"There are hundreds of millions of dollars of scholarships that aren't used every year so these few swimmers aren't denying anyone an education. "
NOT IN MEN'S SWIMMING IN THIS COUNTRY....SHOW ME ONE DOLLAR IN NCAA MEN'S SWIMMING THAT IS NOT USED....and I WILL WEAR A MOOSE SUIT TO WORLDS....A PINK MOOSE SUIT AT THAT....!
As a foreigner it sounds selfish when I hear people here whining about foreign swimmers.That is how the world is set up - the best will get the contract, pretty simple!They have something to offer and they will be offered a scholarship in exchange...I mean you want to be all fair but close your eyes on America "buying out" the best "brains" in different fields for its own economical growth.Heck, just from my home country Russia an estimated 100000 fine scientists(!!!) are working in the US contributing TONS to America!!!Are Russians whining about it?Well, actually, yes, because it is painfull to see your best to go and improve another country .But should they whine?Heck no!!!If those guys were provided with the living(money) US has to offer they would have never left...So America is using the rest of the world pretty darn well(which I have to admit is very smart!!!), so let's not talk about what's fair and what's not!And besides - NCAA would be nothing and would not draw as much attention if you couldn't recruit the best of the best!
P.S.Whining is for losers:if a US swimmer was better than his foreign counterpart he would have no problem getting a scholarship over that other guy!So keep on working rather than whining, that's what those guys who got scholarships did...
Good Smith:
If only US kids should get US money, should we exclude making foreigners pay property taxes since property taxes, for the most part, fund local education?
And, just because an athlete doesn't thank the US in the 15 seconds he's interviewed post race, does that mean he/she isn't greatly appreciative? Maybe the next time someone who trains in the US but wins a gold medal for a foreign country is interviewed post race, they shouldn't thanks their parents or coaches but take the time to sincerely thank US taxpayers. I know that's who my kids will be thanking in the event of athletic success.
It still cracks me up that people refer to sports as war. Sports is a cakewalk, not war.
If competition and winning have nothing to do with a well rounded campus, why do all universities place such high emphasis on extra curricular sporting activities? Why even have IM on campus?
Sports is a leisure time activity, war is not. I don't think your son, if he's good enough for a D-I scholarship, will be turned down for a foreigner. That's far fetched. Any swimmer who can get a D-1 scholarship can probably go to any school they want.
Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. I guess we shold probably set up another gov't program to dictate who goes to college and who gets the scholarship cause that certainly works well. Makes me wonder why I'm still a registered democrat.
So, just so I get it, obtaining a free education, including housing, food, books, etc and being allowed to do what you love is really just like being a prisoner of war. I actually have family members who were in a war, not a war as you describe as going to college for free, but a real war where there are guns and death, and I can assure you that college life is a touch easier, in their opinions. I also train with a bunch of former D-1 college swimmer at big time universities. I've never heard them complain about their college experience. Matter of fact, they seem to think their "prison sentence" was actually fun. They wear their college training as a badge of honor, not some war wound.
Your encouragement to high school athletes by describing a coveted D-1 sports scholarship as being the victim of a war crime sure is motivating, well done sir!
And, for further clarity, the suicidal demise of American higher education, universally regarded as the best in the world end-to-end, is due to us giving a few dozen or hundred top tier international athletes scholarships.
Who woulda thunk it - college life is like being in a Vietnamese prison camp and American colleges are committing suicide by having an international and diverse student body.
Might I suggest if you are no longer enjoying spending your precious free time swimming and consider it warlike toroture activity, maybe you should find a more pleasurable way to spend your time. Might I suggest protecting our beloved public institutions from their suicidal tendencies.
I will tell all the youth on our swim team that swimming is no fun! It is worse than war, it should be terrible! After all, sports is all about not enjoying oneself.
Kellen Winslow, Jr referred to college football as war once also and was universally lampooned. He then signed a multi-million dollar contract, what a war wound! Then, he bought a motorcycle, not a good idea in retrospect.
I think it's kinda important to remind people what war is about when they start comparing it to things like an athletic contest. From what I hear that Coney Island Hot Dog Eating Contest is a WAR. Imagine the inhumanity of eating all those hot dogs on a hot day for a prize.
You continue to minimalize war and what it involves and if it's ok with you, I'll remind folks it's a bit more serious. Either way, they can pick and choose who to believe.
Ironic to bring up 9/11 to discount the notion of war when that was when we went to war on terror and real people died, not just got wet as we see in swim meets, the other kind of war.
I'm sorry I can't lighten up about war with a dozen dead soldiers this week in Iraq. I'm sure the families of those soldiers would gladly trade the horrors of a swim practice for their children back.
I would happily agree the physical training for combat of elite soldiers is comparable to that of elite athletes. Having an army ranger in the family I think the two are similar in some regards.
Most of the best colleges and universities owe a great deal of their reputation to their diverse student body. Saying scholarships should be for Americans first is laughable. College is about broadening your horizons, not sitting in class staring at a bunch of folks exactly like yourself.
Close your borders, close your mind. This is a global economy these days.
