There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
Why would you assume it's tax dollars at work rather than alumni donations? That is certainly the case at private universities. Moreover, big public universities get big bucks from alumni too . . .
And do we oppose foreign aid to alleviate starvation in Africa on the grounds that there's still poverty here in the U.S.???
just asking
Maybe it would be useful to start by figuring out the intended purpose of athletic scholarships and then figure out if giving them to foreign students makes sense.
If athletic scholarships are meant to attract top notch athletes to contribute to the school's athletic program then giving them to foreign students makes perfect sense.
If you believe that athletic scholarships are purely a charity and that the relationship between school and athlete is all one way with the student getting all the benefits and the school receiving nothing in return, and you also believe that charity is for "your own" first then athletic scholarships should only be awarded to "your own". Probably state schools should only give them to people from that state according to the tax arguments. Of course, you have to wonder why you would have athletic scholarships at all, it would probably make more sense to put the money into academic scholarships.
Well, most of the European and Aussie programs are good and don't need to train in the US to be a good swimmer. Its the good third world swimmers who need training in the US or some other first world country, remember back in 1988 when that South America black swimmer beat Blondi in the 100 meter butterfly. Many good latin and Asian swimmers start training in high school in the US since their programs are not that strong. So, I think that western European and Aussie swimmers should train in their own country. I admired Michael Gross who stayed always in Germany instead of training in the US.
Let me try..and I mean TRY to temper my thoughts on this one...!
The short and long on my thoughts are simple....
Giving athletic scholarships, which are hard to come by in swimming, to foreign athletes is pretty stupid! Need I say more?
Originally posted by justforfun
Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
What about the US swimmers that spend time abroad, swimming in places like Australia? Isn't that sort of the same thing?
And, I thought scholarships, scarce or not, were given to students to attend university based on their swimming ability, among other things. I believe there's something in our Bill of Rights about not withholding financial aid just because a person originates from another country.
And of course, they have all the right in the world to represent their home countries, even if they swim/attend school here. For crying out loud, if we want to even the scale, make everything "fair", they should go swim for Great Britian, cuz they're certainly coming out the losers on the international swimming circuit, don't you think?
I thought swimming was less selfish, and had a reputation for being better, sportsmanship-wise, than most of the other sports around us.
If you really want to make it fair, let's start requiring all international teams to have an equal number of swimmers, and if they don't have enough, we'll start sending our guys over to swim for them, so that the teams even out, and everybody has a chance. We'll also make sure that everyone trains in the US, to make it fair, and all swimming scholarships will be completely eradicated, so nobody can complain that it wasn't fair.
How's that for ridiculous? It's never going to be fair all the time, and somebody's always going to complain that our US swimmers got cheated by a foreigner, or some foreigner's going to complain that we are unfair to them. That's the beauty of democracy, kids.
Plus, I like Mark Rogan. He's got really nice.....sportsmanship.
I kind of have to side with Tom on this one! I have a son in HS right now that swims, can't imagine him not being able to go to college because somebody from another country gets his scholarship. If they want to move here permanently and become citizens of the USA and represent us...that's a different story. But, to come here, use our money, coaches and everything else, then go back and represent the country they came from....to me that is way more selfish.
Bill of Rights ? Oh heck yes....let's make that apply to EVERY PERSON ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH....heck, I stand corrected....let's open the borders and let anyone come here....also, while we are at it....let us send all our jobs offshore to help other countries, lets give free aid to everyone and still have millions go hungry here in the USA....let's give what LITTLE scholarship money we have to anyone... from any place....The heck with taking care of USA Swimmers....give the entire store away....Americans do not need rights, jobs, scholarships or rewards for years of hard work in this country….
Yes I want the money I pay in taxes (states and federal) that goes to colleges or universities and to grand/scholarship programs to support American students FIRST ! But note when I said you take care of your OWN first, I also said THEN you help others.
I also want the money I give to my alma mater to be spent in a way I agree with. As a matter of fact the last time UGA called to solicit a donation I earmarked my money for minority scholarships rather than specifying my donation for my graduate department (as has been my custom) because I disagree with the direction my the department has taken in the last few years.
I feel for others around the world who can not afford to attend an American university without support, but I'm sure there are insitutes of higher education in most of their countries they could afford to attend, or attend for free. There were a lot of colleges and universities here in the US I couldn't afford to attend when I was in school, so what did I do? Demand the world give me an education that it owed me? No, I found one I could afford to attend and PAID MY OWN WAY THROUGH SCHOOL BY WORKING TWO PART TIME JOBS AND BORROWING MONEY. Least you think I have no idea of what it means to be poor........ when I moved to Athens to attend grad school at UGA, I was a single mom with 300.00 to my name AND no job prospects.
Scholarship money, whether it is academic or athletic, should go to Americans first. If there is money left over, or perhaps as Rob suggested a small percentage of all scholarship money, should be offered to foreign students.
Lainey
