There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
My point here is:do not forget how and who built America.If you start thinking anti-foreign you pretty much bash yourself, because America is nothing but a concentration of the entire world, citizenship is just paperwork...
Originally posted by thisgirl13
And Dima, Geek, you guys are way out of line. There was so much argument about keeping on topic with the threads, and now you guys are turning this topic about international students and swimming scholarships into the next Cold War. Go fight on the Republicans' chat room.
I'm a democrat.
BTW - I agreed with all your points. Dima was the one who felt US citizenship is just a piece of paper. Tell that to our troops in Iraq who are fighting for Dima.
My brother-in-law went to Arizona State on a baseball scholarship. He recently got a donationn request to help the foundation that gives out scholarships. In the letter was mentioned all of the Olympian swimmers who had attended AState. He told me that none were fromthe US. He was furious.
Why not expand the number of scholarships given?
Originally posted by aquageek
I have no expertise in the area of Russian swimmers in the UK or foreign dishwashers, nor what that has to do with US college scholarships.
You are awfully tough on America, which is the best thing going.
You obviously did not read my post very carefully:I never mentioned a word about russian swimmers in UK, I was talking about Russian coaches working for other nations and you do not have to have any expertise in the dishwashing area(its not like I do) to know that American businesses have it set with cheap illegal mexican labor(and I am not trying to be offensive, it's just reality).I apologize if I came around being tough on America, which I really am not, just trying to stand up for foreigners as myself who came to this country with good intentions.After all you have to admit, America is a melting pot...I agree I kinda deviated from the main discussion but it is related in a way - it all to the question of fair or not fair...So I brought up the whole foreign thing trying to show that foregners coming here are not necessarily eating off "an American plate" and not giving anything back.Think about it this way:by setting the high-level standard of the competition more and more swimmers will try to reach higher goals in their training and match that kinda level.You did not think about the following:maybe America is ranked in swimming that high due to that constant drive for perfection that NCAA dictates its swimmers.We all know from simple training experience, that when you train with someone who is better that you are you try to match him or beat him, it gives you a stimulus to work out harder, maybe you are being negative to something that actually created American supremacy in swimming.
Recruiting foreign athletes is huge in all sports. When I played hockey in college, there were a number of players from Canada and even a couple from Sweden. But no one says anything as long as you are winning games.
I understand the bite about the scholarships going to these athletes, but when it comes to world class athletes, ones who represented their country at the Olympics or Worlds, I think it would be great to have the opportunity to swim with those people. And hopefully it generates more interest in our sport and gets people into the stands.
They are getting their piece of the American pie as my polish ancestors did and it's still difficult for them to be in a completely unfamiliar place.
Originally posted by thisgirl13
What about the US swimmers that spend time abroad, swimming in places like Australia? Isn't that sort of the same thing?
NO IT'S NOT THE SAME THING. Michael Phelps training for a couple of weeks in AUS is not the same thing. I'm sure that he paid his own way.
I'd like for you to name one member of our national team or even one of our Olympic medalists in years past who trained in a foreign country at a university on a full scholarship...
I think foreign athletes training here on US scholarships is WRONG. If they want to train here then they should either pay for it themselves or become a US citizen. I especially have a problem with the state schools because that means that it's my tax dollars going to support this...
Whew...not sure I want to wade in on this one, but here goes. When I first read this thread I automatically thought about Division lll swimming. No scholarships, just school and swimming. Remember school? I thought that was what college was about. Not too many people out there who are making a living as a swimmer after college.
Also, regarding the olympics, for me it's about the best swimmers not which country wins. I really dislike the emphasis put on which country won the most medals. Sure I am proud of Americans for doing well, but don't you like to see good swimming? Remember Michael Gross, Murray Rose, Inge De Bruin? Tell me you didn't enjoy their triumphs regardless of their home country.
Glenn:)
US Citizenship is much more than just paper work, and I take great offense to that statement. Unfortunately, many immigrants probably have similar feelings and is the reason for many of the problems in America. America is built upon specific principles and beliefs and it has made this country great. Immigrants that have bought into these principles and beliefs have made this country great. Immigrants that seek to turn America into just another country indistinguishable from the rest of the world will be its downfall.
My grandfather's (my mother's father) family came here from Poland and Russia, but became proud Americans that readily assimilated into this country. They came here because this is the greatest most compassionate country that has ever existed. Does America have its problems? Of course it does, but I am sick and tired of America supporting the rest of the world while watching others attacking our country trying to bring us down instead of trying to climb up to our level.
As far as the US needing brain power, that is laughable. If it wasn't for America all of these people you refer to would not have the opportunities before them. It is not as if they would create the resources that they have out of thin air and poof it would all go to the country of their origin. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.
Hook'em
Blue
"The scholarships should go to the fastest and most talented athletes regardless of their country of origin."
And should USA based workers/people pay for that.....? If so WHY?
Oh, on the issue of foriegn athletes, I think they should get the scholarships. It increases that variety and intellectual experiences of the students attending the university and expands the influence of the university further than it once would.
We need to get rid if title 9. That would increase the number of scholarships for everyone, not just men.
Hook'em
Blue
