There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
Just need a clarification; I'm not taking sides (being a Canadian, it comes naturally). Those who would limit (or abolish) athletic scholarships for non-US citizens- would they support the same limitations on academic scholarships? I know this discussion centers on the swimming ramifications but I would like to hear from every one (the usual suspects) their take on that aspect.
Originally posted by geochuck
No waiting list in the USA but no one can afford an operation. If everyone who needed an operation were counted the lineups would be very long. I can see my doctor any time I want and don't pay.
Our hospital is a regional medical center serving several counties; patients are admitted and treated regardless of their financial status. Some months a sizable (30%) percentage of our practice's work is not reimbursed (ie we don't get paid for it). Some patients agree to pay $20/month, others never pay at all and their bill is written off as bad debt. These are patients who have undergone lifesaving procedures (angioplasty, bypass surgery, etc.) and received state of the art care. Yes, the system is flawed, but the indigent do receive care--just take a look at our books sometime.
After hundreds of posts on this, I felt the need to pipe in for what it's worth.
The simple solution is that if a university athletic program wants foreign athletes, fine. Pay for their education by using alumni money, if the past students/athletes want their funds used to promote the athletic programs with foreign athletes, private money, not public NCAA Title 9 limited funds should be used which would deny American athletes the privelege of attending their Universities that have been supported by their families tax dollars as long as they have been alive.
These arguments about the not so fortunate foreign athlete does not sit with me. Most (not all) of them are supported by their government to live and train wherever they see fit. So if no alumni money available, then let their governments pay for them to attend our schools so our American athletes are not denied the opportunity to train, get a degree and develop into not only better swimmers (or whatever sport) but also degreed well rounded contributors to society.
As far as this debate going into minimum wage discussions, if you understood the basic issues of supply and demand, you would understand why the minimum wage hasn't and never has worked. Whenever you put a floor or ceiling on the supply demand curve, you destroy the basic economic model. Not a political statement, just economics 101.
Many foreign corps provide matching donations to their emps. I know of at least 4 or 5 gigantic corps with home offices out of the country that do this.
This is good motivation for our athletes. I'm sure it will be posted in locker rooms for the next few years.
I'm a little suspicious about "Chinese medical advances." I recall some of their advances at previous Olympics and the way drug testing curtailed those advances.
To be honest, the Russians and Chinese have never agreed on anything so their alleged unity could turn to squabbling and nothing will come of this.
Originally posted by poolmonkey
Can you name any examples of foreign companies donating money to a university? Just curious about the details surrounding these types of transactions. Maybe it's my paranoia, but I'm always skeptical of donations - from any company wherever they are based. A hidden agenda of some sorts is sometimes involved. Not too many companies do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing.
here's one:
TAN Hall UC Berkeley
just one example. Tan Kah Kee is a Taiwanese industrialist who made the main donation for this new building at CAL for the Chemical Engineering Dept. People like to see their names on buildings. I'm sure there are kickbacks!
Thanks Mary. Great example.
No doubt multi-culturalism has greatly benefited this country.
But I think a number of issues could be resolved with a little legislation, such as:
The amount of money an institution receives from foreign investors influences the number of scholarships available to foreign students with a floor and a ceiling.
If you are receiving greater than x number of dollars from your country of origin, then you are not eligible for an athletic scholarship.
I keep reading entries to this thread. I can't believe any one thinks that Universities shouldn't offer scholarships to anyone they wasnt too offer them to!!!!!! If you believe so strongly that foreign students shouldn't get scholarships then do somehting about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The USA was made great by foreigners. Much investment in real estate in California and the pacific Northwest is being by Chinese. Any company listed on the New York Stock exchange -regarless of where there corp. headquarters are located- must abide by the Sarbannes/Oaxley law, must pay taxes on gains they made through issuing that stock and other US income, and must pay other necessary taxes. Also their is a growing number of US citizens employeed by foreigh firms. some of these peole don't even know who reallyowns the company for which they work.
Our borders are to large to close. There are so many places that cnadians enter into the uSA that aren't protected, it is idiotic to suggest that our borders can be closed! closing our borders woudl destroy our ecomony. Do you know that China only exports roughly 10% of its manufactured goods. However, here inthe USA almost 40% of all manufactured goods come from China!
The answer is simple--move to this country, apply for citizenship (like my grandparents did), then compete for a swimming scholarship at one of our many fine public universities. As they say, membership (citizenship) has its privileges.
Craig:
Check it out:
www.denverpost.com/.../ci_2811052
Perhaps China and Russia will reconsider and bring U.S. athletes into their deal. Maybe they'll give our swimmers financial support and train them inside their borders. It sure doesn't sound like Chinese prosperity in the U.S. has them feeling very generous, though, at least in terms of Olympic competition.
