There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming
Oh, yeah, and about health care - well, I think America needs to be able to figure out how to provide a good health care program to its citizens first...How many people are on the edge of bankrupcy because of "the perfect American healthcare"?Just so that you know in a lot of countries it is government funded and you will not be charged for being treated...
Yes, lack of affordable health insurance is a significant problem for many Americans. That having been said, unlike other nations, we do not have waiting lists (six months or more) for bypass surgery or hip replacements. And no one can be turned away from an emergency room due to lack of money (federal law). If socialized medicine is the answer, why are other countries now exploring privitization?
Originally posted by geochuck
What is the concern, it's been going on since I was a kid. The colleges want their teams to be the best. All of my Canadian friends swam in the US. My brother for U of Maryland, Mike MacLaughlin U of Michigan. Gerry MacNamee USSC, and many others in every state. No scholaships were available in Canada.
No waiting list in the USA but no one can afford an operation. If everyone who needed an operation were counted the lineups would be very long. I can see my doctor any time I want and don't pay.
George, if I am not mistaken, Canadian taxes are higher than the US - at least at the federal level. You may not be paying for it directly to the doctor/hospital, but you are paying. And here in the US, if something is controlled by the government, it becomes less efficient and therefore more expensive. I don't know about the Canadian government.
I don't think the US system is perfect. HMO's drive me up a wall sometimes. But I don't think the Canadian system is perfect either.
I guess the best way it to not get sick!;)
"Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. "
Hold the fort here folks....I am way out there on the right....and I think/believe we should CLOSE the borders.....and fast! Why on earth should we continue to fund, pay for, support illegal aliens that are bankrupting most of our border states....and...at the same time create security risks beyond our wildest imaginations?
You've all covered pretty much everything already, but I just wanted to add from my personal experience (the only one I've got) at UC Berkeley that the foreign swimmers (I don't know if they received scholarships or not) were not only excellent swimmers but also extremely intelligent students way in the upper percentiles. I don't think CAL would have recruited them otherwise. We loved having them in the water with us, bringing with them not only different swimming and training techniques but also their home cultures and, what blew my mind, language skills!
When I saw Duje Draganja in Athens wearing a CAL swim cap for his races I thought "how cool! he's swimming for his country's team, but he's acknowledging the university where he's training!"
I can understand that seeing USA money going to foreign athletes can give you a twist in the gut. But I'm all for going international in schools, pools and boardrooms. If USA universities want to pay foreign athletes to attract them to their schools ... what are you going to do? There must be a payback for the universities, otherwise, I don't think they'd do it...
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
"Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. "
Hold the fort here folks....I am way out there on the right....and I think/believe we should CLOSE the borders.....and fast! Why on earth should we continue to fund, pay for, support illegal aliens that are bankrupting most of our border states....and...at the same time create security risks beyond our wildest imaginations?
Tom, I agree with you.... with one clarification. I don't support complete closing of the borders. I support CONTROLLED immigration.
I applaud anyone who wants to improve their family's conditions in life. I just don't want them walking across the border at will.... in .... out .... in ...... out..... Somehow, this must be controlled better. And don't get me started about those who want to allow people to vote without ID. I believe proof of citizenship should be required to vote. And I am amazed there hasn't been another terrorist attack here since 9/11..... And how is it that Vincente Fox can get away with allowing his country to need to milk off of others like this - instead of improving his own country's economy....the whole thing is frustrating to me.
I just feel like neither the republicans or democrats want to take that step. Neither is willing to alienate the growing hispanic voter base.
And for the record, I am a registered independent. I vote in every election. I do vote right considerably more than left.
Oh, and on the original topic - I don't have a problem with foreign athletes in our country - scholarship or professional. (If they are here legally.) I figure I can see the best compete that way.
I continue to be amused that the exact same far right crowd that wants to close the border also consistently votes against a living minimum wage. What do those people think attracts illegal aliens? It's the low paying jobs Americans won't do because of the crappy minimum wage that can't support a family. Talk about bankrupting! So, if you want to take this arcane and economically ridiculous step of closing borders, do it for all nations that feed the US people, not just the poorer onces, get off your kiester and support paying Americans a living minimum wage so this problem doesn't continue to grow. You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by laineybug
Fortunately some institutions universally recognized as excellent (Yale, Harvard, your own UGA, Duke, Stanford, etc, etc, etc) long ago realized that diversity of student body actually promoted the concept of higher education.
"Maryyyyyyyy, and others, I certainly agree that foreign students bring a great diversity and promote greater understanding of different cultures and races on college and university campuses. I even picked an apartment in Athens because the children who lived there went to an elementary school where there was a very high enrollment of the children of foreign students. I wanted my daughter to have the experience of knowing children from other countries. But, campus diversity isn't the question really. The question is: are American institutes of higher education denying our students scholarships because they give them to foreign students? If so, is this right? In my opinion, campus diversity isn't worth the cost of an athletic scholarship going to a foreign student.
It's not a question of granting foreign athletes admission to a public university, it's a question of whether they should receive an athletic scholarship, of which there are a limited number. I wonder how many academic scholarships are awarded to foreign students by public (state) universities.
