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Sprint Coaches - where are you - I need help ??

03BHY

Here is the question for me right now - turnover rate OR distance per stroke ? Here is the "story" -- I was always good at distance per stroke, but I want to focus on speed and sprints so I have been working to up my turnover - going max speed my stroke per minute or turnover rate is 58-60 .. hard to keep for full 25 ... its is max I have. But I did notice that I would get close to that in 100 pace swim where I probably go more or longer distance per stroke -- so now I did a test. 8x25 all out every 6 minutes - did this 2x .... always altered between max turnover swims - they were always 58sh -- and long stroke swim at 48 turnover rate --- and I always swam same times - 12.5 seconds flip turn to flip turn (easier for me to video and time)  - all same time - either way - they were all MAX effort regardless -- just used better catch on the 48 turnover swims - but still max effort. Also on the high turnover swims I used 2-3 extra strokes for the 25 -- makes sense ....  so the goal is easy - swim close or at 58 turnover but use close to distance per stroke from the "long catch swims" --- 

So - long question - which way to train --- train at the high turnover rate and try to slowly lengthen distance per stroke while keeping rate same --- OR use the long stroke and just keep tryin to up turnover to 49 then 50 and so on ... no tools or toys yet -- that will be part of this eventually but for now just simple good sprint swimming. 

Yep - my way to keep myself entertained in the pool :) 

  • FYI there was a study in the 80s on stroke rate and speed, that showed for free, increasing stroke rate increased speed up to a point and then it plateaued. 

    Conventional wisdom would be to start at max rate and slowly decrease the stroke count until you slow down. In your case you may find that an intermediate count is faster. You have videos of your stroke, how is your technique at AFAP?

    There is the other issue that many sprinters have gone to the straight arm recovery, which gets you into the catch faster, but is not maintainable for long. I am not freestyle focused, but when I do 25 free sprints I have found straight arm recovery is faster for me.

  • in reply to Allen Stark

    Yeah - its a great point I learned in this journey back - straight arm free works GREAT for a 50 - but you can't do it for more than a 50 ... just looked at the Olympics - most 50F folks did straight arm - I think all - and I don't think any made the 100 Final - and I think all 100F folks use the hybrid way ... fun experiments 

  • I say this as a distance swimmer and a lifelong student of distance swimmer Penny Lee Dean: you have not trained in sprinting. 

    Your post title calls for sprint-specific coaching. Your long question though is about variations in your current swim stroke, which is not at all a sprint stroke. It may be your max effort, and it may be over a short 25 yard distance, but it is not a sprint stroke. 

    With my coaching hat now on, my suggestion is to ask your coach to coach you toward your goal. The discussion about your turnover from 48 to a max of 60 strokes per minute tells me as a coach that you are either a giant human with super long arms or that your stroke is a distance-style freestyle, meaning long reach and probably a pause at full extension for glide. This is an excellent technique for channel swimming, which I coach, and for distance pool swims like the 6000m postal swim, which I was national champion in some years ago. 

    If you’re willing to create a brand new way of swimming and do quickness training, then you can cause your arms to turn over 65-70+ strokes per minute and create a powerful kick. 

    As you may be able to tell, I have done this work for myself. Recently I got my body to transition from marathon-distance open water freestyle technique to sprint freestyle to play better water polo and underwater torpedo. Email me if you’re interested. I don’t regularly check this forum. Jacquelineinbusiness@yahoo.com -Coach Jax Cole