Fina Rules

I think the backstroke turn rule would be ok if it said that you can rotate onto your front before touching as long as the rotation is continuous. This would have eliminated the problem with judging whether the swimmer was past ninety degrees at the instant they touched without allowing swimming on the *** as part of backstroke. I even suspect that this was the intent of the rule change but they botched the wording.

Originally posted by knelson No, the easiest way would be to go back to the old rule which said you must always remain on your back throughout the turn. Allowing the flip onto the front for the turn is what opened this can of worms in the first place. Originally posted by Karen Duggan and world records to be decimated, and back to be WAY faster than fly... they used to be pretty comparable. I was surprised to see that the SCM 200 back world record is faster than the SCM 200 fly world record! In all other world records the fly is faster. Clearly we need to allow flip turns in butterfly to right this obvious wrong in the SCM 200 records!

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming You know, Wayne, Stephanie is right Would you mind terribly forwarding that statement to the guys on my swim team? There's a horrible running joke that I'm never right. Okay, it's deserved a little bit, but all I did was make ONE comment that mixed up a couple numbers - something about 23% of Japan's population being over the age of 100, when it's actually 23 THOUSAND. One little slip up, and I get ridiculed into oblivion. *sigh* Men are trouble. But it's nice to see you two getting along. :D I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Originally posted by Bob McAdams I don't know that this would be easier. The trouble is that, for most FINA/USA/NCAA swimmers today, it would not be going back, but going to a brand new rule. bob, you're exactly right! i started swimming 16 years ago, and that was the last year the old rule was *the* rule. so yeah, pretty much the only people who would have ever done the old turn would be us masters swimmers... and there may be some wicked young masters (like the 18-20 year olds; not that i'm all that much older!) who weren't even yet swimming when it changed.

Originally posted by knelson SW 6.4 During the turn the shoulders may be turned over the vertical to the *** after which a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull may be used to initiate the turn. Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action. The swimmer must have returned to the position on the back upon leaving the wall. When executing the turn there must be a touch of the wall with some part of the swimmer’s body. So, no, there is no explicit wording that gliding is forbidden. However, if you glide is this a "continuous turning action?" I would say no. I don't think most judges are going to DQ you unless this glide is pretty pronounced OR you continue to kick after you've completed the arm pull. The things the rule prohibits are: 1) doing more than one arm pull after rolling onto your *** 2) a pause between the arm pull and the turn 3) a pause during the arm pull. 4) doing nothing but kicking at any time after you roll onto your *** 5) not touching the wall.

Originally posted by knelson No, the easiest way would be to go back to the old rule which said you must always remain on your back throughout the turn. Allowing the flip onto the front for the turn is what opened this can of worms in the first place. I don't know that this would be easier. The trouble is that, for most FINA/USA/NCAA swimmers today, it would not be going back, but going to a brand new rule.

Sometimes I lurk in www.usms.org to see what I left behind, and I found this: Originally posted by Peter Cruise Ande- it is an unfair reference by me to a past poster of emails who focused on late-blooming & VO2 max to the exclusion of all else. For awhile there was little talk of anything that did not get turned upside down to reflect that focus= postings exchanged that eclipsed civility then warnings from admin. then penalty box then it was all over. You're doing a great job with your tips, but believe me, if this was a year or so ago, you wouldn't have been able to stay on topic. It is wrong on many accounts. My post here -a digression from the topic of this thread- is about right and wrong. .) gossip = wrong; .) "...to the exclusion of all else..." = wrong; there were informed posts that I wrote on many subjects; .) "...then warnings from admin..." = wrong, there were no warnings to two temporary suspensions that I got, one in September 2003 for two weeks, one in April 2004 for one month; .) "...then penalty box then it was all over..." = wrong, I left www.usms.org on my own, disagreeing with my temporary suspensions as I deemed them to be a censorship of my voice, while at the same time people were allowed to post personal attacks; I can post in www.usms.org; I prefer to post at www.usswim.org though; I always posted at www.usms.org under my name, Ion Beza, so any post at www.usms.org that resembles my style but is not signed by my name is not by me; at www.usswim.org I post once again only under my name; .) regarding "...it is an unfair reference by me to a past poster of emails who focused on late-blooming & VO2 max...", when you don't appreciate character and excellence in my late blooming undertake of swimming, when you don't appreciate my education for improvement (and here the VO2 Max Shampoo was a joke in bad taste by Tom Ellison, that you and many posters there reprised like parrots), then nobody forces you now or forced you before to participate in my posts. This quote: "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the door of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." applies: I am "...the man who is actually in the arena...", the late bloomer who raised to unprecedented training for me (the most ever in my life, now in 2005, a 31,430 yards per week over 34 weeks of season so far, intensity and technique, cross training also), and competitions (5 in 2004, 6 in 2003, 6 USMS Short Course Nationals in the past 9 years, 5 Long Course Nationals in the past 9 years). I think that you are the other side described in this quote.