Rob is correct: Any group of people can register as a USMS "club". It's not the decision of the LMSC.
It's also not required that a swimmer who swims at a particular pool has to register with a particular USMS "club"*. For example, just because Phil swims in Menlo Park doesn't mean that he has to register an attachment to the Menlo Masters USMS club. He could register "unattached" or with any other club he chooses to align with. He doesn't even need to register with USMS through the Pacific LMSC. The only requirement for Phil is that if he wants to align with a club, he must register in (or transfer his membership to) the same LMSC that also registered the club.
Likewise, if anyone out there wants to swim in a relay with Phil, you can register an attachment to Menlo Masters or whatever club to which Phil has attached.
*Unless it's a condition of being a dues-paying participant in an organization's workouts that you must profess an attachment to that organization on your USMS registration. I'm not aware of an organization that demands this, though I assume that there are.
Hi,
We had a very similar discussion to this one a LONG time ago in a different thread. Pretty much what it came down to was: people on the sub-teams wanting to swim relays, but didn't have enough people- enter the SUPERTEAM.
I still have a really hard time with it coming from one of the larger club teams in the country. And I'll say it again: we all swim together at the same pool, compete together, have the same coaches, etc. We are a "team" all the time (good and bad) not just at large meets.
And I still think that club teams should be a different category at Nationals than these SUPERTEAMS. It's really irritating when Walnut Creek Masters (a city in CA) is in the same category as all of the Rocky Mountains, the state of Illinois, the state of Ohio, etc. I do agree if we formed a Bay Area superteam we would win every nationals, easily, as we do have 25% of all of USMS membership right here. But that's not the point. I've always associated swimming with "my" club team (age group and currently). So there!:p
Thank you to who replied over the past few days about my question.
I understand the pro and con's of LMSC super teams and the reasons teams have been formed. Rob is right that they are a team like all others.
There are teams out there that are made up of members of that superteam year around and does not have chapters. They do workout or compete against each other no matter where they are. If the superteam was in Memphis and they had a meet in Memphis they would compete as the superteam name. The other teams would also compete as they are. The same thing would happen when they go out of state.
There are teams that pull people off their home club team to compete on the superteam, but they do not have the superteam when they compete in the same area. Then a meet out of state comes up and they pull swimmers from their home team to compete on the superteam and they sent their meet forms with the home team (not superteam). They have swam a meet in the last 60 day that one results shows there home team, but everything gets change over for top ten for the superteam. Sounds confusing-it is!
It is not that I do not like the battle with a superteam - I would like the swimmers to choose who they are going to swim for and build team spirt. Like Rob, I too like to know who I am swimming a relay with.
Now your turn - I really like what I have read so far! Thank you for this worth while postings.
Thanks Skip for the original reply to my questions. I have been out of town and couldn't reply until today. I will investigate more and hope to get joined up here soon.
Thanks again,
Brian
Well thanks, Frosty. It is good to know that I have so many choices.
But you know, man, we here in California are just, you know, too laid back to, like, organize a, like, *team*, though it would be, uh -hella- nice . . . (I guess) :confused:
I was one of the people Karen was discussing with ( Team Divisions thread ). It is not necessarily about banding together to form a winning team (although that is nice). You only get a few swimmers from each club that go to Nationals (unless it is Indy). It would stink to have a dozen Illinois clubs, 3 swimmers each, and zero relays. (Versus a 36 member IM team, and getting a chance to meet/socialize more people because of these "mixed" relays.)
There's no easy way to draw a line.
Note that this happens in USA Swimming, too.
Here in New England, we had four "regular sized" teams all merge under a single team name a couple years ago. They now compete as a single team. They swim at four (or more) different pools. Here in New England, that was sort of a big thing. And I have no idea how their finances work.
My girlfriend, who currently lives in the Boston area, grew up swimming in Atlanta, GA. She was really surprised at all of the little bitty teams we have in club swimming in New England. In Atlanta, there are, basically, SwimAtlanta and Dynamo. According to their web sites, SwimAtlanta swims at 5 different pools, and Dynamo swims at two facilities. (Note however that Dynamo built and owns their own facilities, each of which has at least two pools, I think one of them has three pools.) So for someone from Atlanta, the concept of these little bitty teams fighting for pool space was very strange.
Even here in New England for masters, I swim for Cambridge Masters Swim Club, which is really a 'workout group' part of the New England Masters club. However, even our 'workout group' swims at three different pools in the course of a 1-week workout schedule.
What's the difference between a 'real club' and a 'super-club'? Impossible to say.
-Rick
There was discussion (but no proposals) at convention last year about creating two divisions at nationals to address the issue of super teams. One division would be for the clubs made up of mulitple teams and the other division for clubs made up of only one team.
The idea sounded simple enough until we tried to decide what clubs would be classified where. Currently, there does not seem to be an easy way to tell the difference as it does differ between LMSC's.
Rick,
The only thing I have thought of that might work is how you register. For example, if the LMSC list the workout group membership on your membership card as well as the NEM club name, it might be a way to tell the difference. Of course, I am not sure that all registrars handle this the same way.
Still, are three teams combining together to form a large club any different than a club with 3 workout locations and little coordination between the coaches? Not sure.
The idea is not to discourage the super team concept. In some parts of the country, it works quite well. In other parts, membership growth has occurred when super teams split up. It would be good if we could find a fair way to divide the teams.
