Shark, I can see how you would be confused. I think what you should still do is talk to the LMSC officers and get a feel for what is being done in the LMSC. Take a look at the 2005 LMSC handbook which is in the front page of this website and read the section on registration which outlines what you need to do as a Club and as an Individual. Also in this section they have a list of clubs that were registered in 2004. I noticed 7 were registered in your LMSC last year so I know there is a system there to get your club registered for the 2005 year if you want to go that route. I know many years ago that the OHIO LMSC registered as GOST and that was the club they would compete as when they would go to Zone and National events. I really don't know what is going on now but someone should be able to fill you in.
In Michigan, since 1974 we have registered as one club and that is namely Michigan Masters. When we do any National event either pool, open water, postal, and FINA World we compete as the Michigan Masters team. When we have instate competitions such as our local sanctioned/recognized meets we compete as teams and workout groups. Our bylaws explain this in detail and if you want to know more about it you can see them on the Michigan Masters website which is linked to this national site.
There are differences in opinion around the country as to what is the right, fair, logical, economical, practical, and best way to do the registration and it has been debated on this fourm in the past. Every LMSC has different reasons for doing what they want to do. In Michigan, it has never been a problem because the majority of our registered competitive swimmers swim in the local competitions and always represent the workout group or team in competition. We have 14 santioned/recognized events including our State Championship which gets about 300 swimmers.
People that go to the National events like the opportunity to swim relays with others they meet in the local competitions and this makes enjoyable and fun. Also its a lot easier to put the ages together for the relays especially for the older age groups because sometimes you don't have enough people to fill a relay. This is just one opinion and I m sure there are many others.
I have a couple of questions on this topic.
1. I am trying to get a masters team started in the central Ohio area and cannot find the forms that are needed for starting the team. I have checked many websites and have e-mailed my local LMSC and have not received a response. I can find the forms for individual membership, but where do I find the forms for a team membership?
2. From previous responses in this thread, when we compete in Ohio, we will compete with our own team, but compete with a large Ohio team when out of state or local?
Does this make sense. It is quite confusing for me.
Shark--
The state of Ohio doesn't swim as one team at Nat'ls at all! In the state of OH there are 15 teams, all of whom are their own entities at Nationals. Plus GOST and SWOM have sub-teams. Remember, there are 2 LMSC's in Ohio--the state is split.
In the north, the Lake Erie LMSC has 3 teams. The team called O*H*I*O has sub-teams or practice groups.
Steven, I don't have a problem with "teams" combining under the umbrella of a larger "club". I've experienced both life under the large umbrella, life in the local club world (that includes Pensacola), and life as an unbranded fish...and I don't have any issues with any of those constructs.
In some places, the bylaws of the LMSC are written that way. For example, in the Ohio LMSC (as opposed to the Lake Erie LMSC), they DO swim on their own sub-teams for meets held WITHIN the LMSC--Cinci, Oxford, Columbus,BG, etc. but if they go out of state or even to meets held in the Lake Erie LMSC, they swim as a whole team. I used to be on a team there. I think it is fine that way.
Now, for the first time that I remember, this weekend Lakewood (Lake Erie) will have a meet where the sub-teams will be swimming as separate groups, with practice teams gaining points againt another practice team. There will be fun relays included with the winners being treated to lunch after. I think it should be fun.
Michigan swims as one team (a big one) out of state but at their own State meet (a very competetive and well-attended meet), they swim on sub-teams, battling it out.
Just so you know, Craig, Pacific teams (AKA in some places as 'workout groups') never compete as a super 'Pacific Team'.
I suppose I can't complain since it is a decision of the LMSC, but it is irritating to go to eastern meets and have the 'super teams' clobber all of the pacific 'workout groups,' (and not be able to form a relay.) Since Pacific has almost 1/4 of all master swimmers, I suspect the rest of the country would be pretty unhappy if it were a combined group.
All I know is how it works in Illinois. In Illinois there are several subgroups. Some are affliated with Illinois Masters and some are not. In, in-state meets all the subgroups compete against each other, however at Nationals there is a large contingent of Illinois Masters. There are still teams in Illinois that are not affiliated with Illinois Masters and swim independently.
Does that make sense?
It is not a decision of the LMSC (Local Masters Swimming Committee) to have one super club or multiple clubs. It is the decision of the swimmers, who are members of the LMSC. So if a group of swimmers want to have their own club, the LMSC Registration Chair should be contacted to get the proper forms. If the LMSC registrar doesn’t have the forms, contact the national Registration Committee Chair.
Each LMSC is a “committee” of USMS, responsible for registering clubs and individuals and managing the affairs of USMS within its geographic region. The LMSC is not the owner of the super-club.
But back to Steve’s question, I’m not a fan of super-clubs but I think I see why some people are. Hypothetically, a large super-club (let’s call it GAJA) could travel or of state to a met, in say Alabama, and just by sheer numbers win the team championship and form relays from the all around the state to compete against a team from small local teams. Who doesn’t want to be part of a winning team or a winning relay?
As a member of one of these super-clubs I have seen these benefits; however I personally believe that a club should be a traditional club. I prefer knowing the members of my club and not needing to be introduced to my relay members, because I’d never seen them before.
