Just wondering. How many of y'all are using the front quadrant swimming technique? I have been using the book and DVD-Total Immersion and trying to adjust my stroke. When I do the stroke correctly it is so much easier-effortless. I feel like I am able to reduce the drag I create when swimming the way I was taught to swim years ago. I'm interested in anyone's experience with FQS. Thanks:)
Former Member
Originally posted by 330man
Look at Phelps in the lower portion of the picture. He is probably not going to wait until both hands are parallel to each other to begin his next stroke but he is also at full race speed. His recovering arm is just above his head and his lead arm has yet to begin it's catch.
Phelps' recovering hand is approaching his ear; as his recovering hand and arm enter the front quadrant, his other arm will begin the catch phase and then the pull. None of these guys are swimming catch up. Yes, their strokes are long, and strictly speaking they are swimming "front quadrant", but there is a difference.
This thread has sent me deep into research. I have reread Swimming Fastest, Total Immersion & am now looking into Emmett HInes. This debate is really deep.
On the wedsite for Buehler Blue Marlins, there are several write-ups against TI. There is one particularly interesting about shoulder & hip roll. Yesterday, I noticed that when I roll both my hips & shoulder, I swim slower but easier then when I only roll m y shoulders. TI & HInes suggest that (I think) that both should roll.
My real thouhgts are that neither Thorpe nor Shoenman (is there an "n") don't really do FQS. I looks like at times Shoenman's hips are actually in the way as he tries to get his hands moving beyobnd his shoulders during the pull. Thorpe's hands are at times both above his shoulders at one time. Yet his arms really excelerate as they're moving past his shoulders. Neither seem to me to be pushing with their heads down.
Then look at the North Americans. They look to me to be swimming completely different.
What really amazes me in listening to swimmers talk about technique/style is the "one size fits all" mentality. By that I mean that people seem to think that you should use the same technique for all events and/or the same style as a certain swimmer. In most sports there are a *set* of techniques that are generally considered "good" based on, say, distance being covered and then these are modified by each person (i.e. their individual style) based on the indviduals' limitations.
In track you do not use the same technique in running the 100 meters as you do in the marathon. Likewise each person in an event has stylistic variations. So when I hear people say "You should swim like Phelps/Evans/Thorpe/Weismuller/etc" and then get nearly religious about it, I scratch my head.
I do TI-style swimming. However, I have modified it to meet my individual limitations. So, for example, since I have the world's least flexible ankles and *NO* kick, I take an extra few strokes to get across the pool and not make lowered stroke count the only thing that matters. I have found that if the count goes too low, I "stall" since my kick will not carry through a dead spot. Instead of taking 11 strokes to get across the pool - which I can "force", I take 14 fairly comfortably. Furthermore, if I sprint (a sad sight), I change my technique to be slightly less TI-like and less efficient in favor of slightly higher turnover. If I use extra oxygen in a 50, who cares as long as I go faster? - It gets paid back after the sprint.
Bruce Lee became the legendary martial artist he was by judiciously borrowing what he thought was the best of various martial arts and not by one school of thought. There are many paths to the same end.
-LBJ
I agree. I think that's true for all of these swimmers.
Another point--the TI page refers to the "patient lead arm," which is misleading and seems to suggest that there should be a hesitation or pause in the stroke. The lead arm is actually beginning the downsweep into the catch position, at which point the pull begins. This is well described in Swimming Fastest and, once again, does not represent a catch up stroke.
totalimmersion.net/.../pictureperfect.html
Another interesting thing to note is how far van den Hoogenband's pull has progressed while his recovering arm has just entered the water (look at the splash and where he is in his body roll).
This picture of Thorpe shows the position of his pulling hand at the point that his recovering hand is entering the water.
Right--still "front quadrant" (both arms are in the front quadrant at the same time) but not catch up. Important difference. Look, these guys just make it look easy, but there are no short cuts to achieving their form. They drill, but they also train 80-100,000 yards/week.
Looking at the Thorpe video some more, it is pretty clear that Thorpe does not keep his head aligned with his spine or look straight down, rather he looks almost directly forward.
I noticed during the 800 free at Athens Kalyn Keller kicked very little, if at all, off the turns. I immediately thought "she could go so much faster if she kicked." That's what we've been taught, but is it necessarily true? Maybe the slight reduction in speed off the walls she gets is offset by the energy she saves and can, thus, use later in the swim. If you have a poor kick it might do more harm than good, especially when you're in a streamlined position. Some of these things are less cut-and-dry than they appear at first!
