At the U.S. Trials there was one official in every lane looking at the turns, so now that we're in Athens, how does Kitajima get away with that dolphin kick on his turn? It seemed clear to me from the above water shot, then was confirmed with the underwater. Other breaststrokers care to weigh in?
Former Member
Edward, on the fly your feet do not have to stay together. They only have to move simultaneously, whether together or apart doesn't matter.
And, I would hope that the Stroke and Turn Judges at each end would have the ____s enough to DQ a person (any person) who throws a dolphin kick in in the breaststroke. There is a pretty distinct motion when it comes from the pull and is part of the body dolphining (Totally Legal) and when someone throws in an obvious kick. You can see very distinctly the difference between Kosuke's 100 start and turn and his start and turns in the 200.
Originally posted by dreamer
Why is a dolphin kick off the breastroke turn prohibited? In the other strokes I noticed a dolphin kick used after turning off the wall, or even at the start. Just curious..
I'm sure there is some historical tie-in to the time when the butterfly was created as a sort of "spin-off" of the breaststroke - although I don't know what that is.
BUT - a dolphin kick is definately allowed off the wall on the fly, backstroke (on your back of course) and free. In fact, they are pretty much accepted as the best way to keep up the speed off the wall for those three.
Evolution breastroke with a frog kick, it then became ok to bring the arms over the top in breaststroke.
Matt Manne jr started to do what they called a fish tail kick I was in London Ontario the first time he demonstrated this new thing.
Then someone started to do a double kick which they called a dolphin kick this was not legal for breaststroke and this is where the two strokes seperated.
When you were not allowed to do a fish tail in came the whip kick for breaststroke, as close as they could get to the fishtail without breaking the rules. From there who knows the rest of the changes, above water, below water head position, swimming all the way underwater and rule change after rule change... the story continues.
The only reason I know this is because I am getting long in the tooth.
George Park www.swimdownhill.com
Originally posted by aquageek
I did watch everyone's turn as it is possible to look at a TV screen and see more than one person. Kitajima's were much more pronounced.
Apparently this Kitajima dude's turns were a sore subject at world's last year, according to Rowdy anyway.
See Phil Whitten's editorial in www.swiminfo.com
Makes two interesting points:
*Violation of dolphin kick, based on underwater tape, suggests that Kitajima was not the only one
*Points out the difficulty of judging this from above-water views
*Suggests that judges have access to underwater video to specifically look for such violations
Several letters to swiminfo make this suggestion and point out that we have specific judges on deck that look at the 15 meter mark to watch for underwater kicking violation in the other strokes.
This is an excellent suggestion for large international meets but is obviously not practical for our local/regional meets.
CHEATING IS CHEATING.
As a breaststroker I hate cheaters in my stroke. And Kitajima is a cheater.
Did you catch Rowdys comments that Kitajima was doing legal underwaters during the prelims of the 200 ***, but will probably do a dolphin in finals as no stroke judge will be bold enough to disqualify him. Just think about that! It really makes me mad!
Lets face the FACTS, the USA has ZERO power in the world of swimming, and they will allow other swimmers to cheat to beat us!
How do you think the wave came about? Europeans were cheating the rules back in the mid 1980's, both recovering the hands over the water and dipping the head below the waters surface. But because they were beating the USA, they changed the rules so it was legal for the 1988 Olympics!
Now I love the wave style, it makes the stroke beautiful rather than bruttish. But if the USA had come up with it the rules would not have changed.
That water was plenty clear enough to detect the dolphin. The judges will just ignor it because he is a Olympic Gold medalist now.
Note they disqualified Ian for a flutter on the pull down, and his legs did move slightly up and down. Now there is no advantage to that, just a bad form break.
But to dolphin and get another 18 inches is huge when he only won by the same amount in the 100.
Those of us with long memories can remember when the last japanese male breaststroker won, he also cheated with an illegal kick.
Originally posted by breastroker
CHEATING IS CHEATING.
As a breaststroker I hate cheaters in my stroke. And Kitajima is a cheater.
He was not dQ'd so he did not cheat. We can rave on but thats the breaks.
Lets not cry over spilt milk.
George www.swimdownhill.com
I'm sorry Jim and other readers! My mistake. I didn't mean to spoil anyone's surprise. I haven't been watching the news so I can be surprised when I watch the Olympics! Please accept my apologies!
Honest mistake… Yea, Right.
Isn’t this the same crowd that demonized some poor swimmer for mistakenly throwing a tiny little dolphin kick in his 100 Breaststroke? ;)
Originally posted by gull80
Rob's right. As often as these guys post, there's no way it was an honest mistake. They just didn't think they'd get caught. Fotunately we have an administrator who isn't afraid to make the tough calls.
Wow. I apologize then get attacked. :confused:
