I started diving off of starting blocks when I was eight years old. I am now 51, and train at the Y, almost always alone, as there is no Masters program in the county where I live, or in any of the immediately adjacent counties. (There are several age group programs.) I want to work on my starts, but none of the Y's where I swim will let me use the blocks - saying that a national Y policy prohibits anyone from using the blocks unless a team/club coach is on the deck.
I have never heard of anyone suing a YMCA because of an accident on a starting block.
Yes, perhaps a coach would be valuable to me in this regard, but I'm not looking for a coach - I need and want a cooperative facility. The age groups' program schedules are not conducive to my schedule, and besides, the age group coaches already have enough on their hands during those times with lanes full of kids working their programs. I also am not excited about having to dodge those kids to do the work I need to do.
Anyone find a way to conquer this litigation-fear-induced insanity yet? Thank you.
Former Member
I agree with Carl.
Most swim coaches are decent, reasonable, hard working human beings.
Interesting editorial in Friday's Wall Street Journal (the Weekend Journal section) entitled "Lawyer Logic: A Villain for Every Victim." The author, a Rhodes scholar, has cerebral palsy.
Does the YMCA rule exist on the basis of legitimate safety concerns or did it arise primarily out of a fear of litigation?
Lesson to my one year old:
Hot-burny
Our society is so sue happy anymore it seems no one can take responsibility for themselve and their own actions. It is always someone elses fault.
As a certified pool manager I learned the many dangers of swimming pools. It is hard to find diving boards in pools anymore because insurance is too high. Which was caused by the many lawsuits.
I could never understand why pools are held responsible for a childs drowning when a child climbed over a 8 foot fence to get into the pool. Where is the responsibility of the parents who had no idea what their six or seven year olds where up to.
This is what has led to the rules that many pools need to inforce. To prevent getting sued. You may say I will claim responsiblilty but what about the next guy who is just as good a swimmer as you and claims they will hold themselves responsible. You may not sue but the next guy just might get his 100 million for hitting his head on the bottom of the pool.
I do think if you get to know the director and discuss the issue with the director you might be able to work something out.
Originally posted by KenChertoff
Not at my pool -- there's no "shallow" end and the bulkheads are opposite the blocks. We enter the pool at the starting block end. Besides, have you never seen a swimmer cross the lane lines?
Sure. In fact, if they cross my lane at the starting block end of the pool, I can see it while I'm standing on the starting block, and I can delay my start until they're out of the road. You really sound like you're grasping at straws here in a vain effort to justify an unjustifiable policy!
You forget that in my hypothetical the lifeguard was busy "explaining" to the Lipitor Dude why he couldn't dive. I would think that that would be a significant distraction. Anyway, it seems to me that a clueless swimmer getting in the way of someone diving off the block is a much more serious matter than a teenager swimming in the adults' lane.
At my pool, the lifeguards have to explain to adults why they can't swim in the teen lane, and explain to parents why their kid can't swim unsupervised in one of the family lanes, and explain to lane swimmers why they can't exit the pool under the diving board when people are using it, and explain to lane swimmers why they can't enter the pool from the deep end, etc., etc. , etc. It's hard to see why this would be any different.
If you post a rule saying "Starting blocks cannot be used during lane swim unless the lane is free and swimmer has a certification badge," most swimmers will read the rule and obey it, and for those who don't, it's a pretty simple matter for the lifeguard to point them to the posted rules.
Of course, we all know, Ken, that your real motive is to keep us from practicing our starts so that you can gain a competitive advantage over us! ;-)
So just to summarize, I think what Carl is saying is that lawyers are....people ...just like the rest of us.
And what Ken is saying is that, while you may think your lane is clear, another swimmer (like Michael Phelps) can appear almost instantaneously as you are leaving the starting block.
Any questions?
Originally posted by Bob McAdams
Of course, we all know, Ken, that your real motive is to keep us from practicing our starts so that you can gain a competitive advantage over us! ;-)
If you ever saw my starts you'd know that's not true. :)
Actually, if you must know, the reason that I feel strongly about this is we've sometimes had people at my pool dive into occupied lanes (despite the posted rules) and last week one of them barely missed me. The lifeguards throw them out, but that wouldn't help much after a collision. It's not something I want to encourage.:mad:
Originally posted by KenChertoff
..
This is an example of one of my pet peeves about news coverage of legal matters. The media report (and sometimes speculate) about "outlandish" cases, but they only tell part of the story and they don't report when cases are dismissed or verdicts are reversed.
All news coverage should be taken with a grain of salt. The side of the issue that is the most "spectacular" will get the coverage. Don't ever forget that the news shows need ratings first and foremost to make money. And newspapers need circulation, etc.
Originally posted by botterud
"No trial lawyer would take the case because there wasn't millions to be made - only maybe thousands - if that."
You know, the vitriol that has been spewed in this thread towards lawyers has, in my opinion, gone far enough. Are there bad, greedy lawyers? Sure. Just like there are bad greedy doctors, insurance adjusters, swim coaches and so on.
Most of the lawyers, doctors, swim coaches I know are decent, reasonable, hard working human beings. Many lawyers and doctors do a significant amount of pro bono work to help people who otherwise could not afford counsel at no charge.
There are lawyers who are masters swimmers just like you guys on this forum. We swim pool races, ocean races, volunteer in our communities, raise our families, do our jobs and treat others as we would like to be treated. Heck, there were five lawyers in the water at practice this morning and you know what, not one shark joke from our teammates.
So why not turn the bile down a notch? Remember, karma can be a b**ch.
carl botterud
Carl,
I apologize. You are correct that it is a small percentage of lawyers that are of this mindset. It is unfortunate that the whole profession is painted one way by the few. If you are a lawyer, I must say that I don't know anything about you or your practice. It is wrong for me to make generalizations.
I still feel that in the case of the McD's coffee, if it was a local diner with modest resources and a smaller insurance policy, it would have been handled differently.
Heck, as an engineer, I would like to say that we don't all wear pocket protectors in white shirts, flood water pants and thick black glasses taped in the middle! (We do take interest in things that most people would care less about though.)
I think so, pretty good ones at that. It just seems to me that perhaps there was more anger and hostility than joshing in some of the earlier posts. And as my wife will tell you, I'm more of a "bull in a china shop" sorta guy, and not particularly sensitive to criticism. Heck, how could I do my job if I wasn't able to do battle? Maybe I took it all wrong.
c
