I started diving off of starting blocks when I was eight years old. I am now 51, and train at the Y, almost always alone, as there is no Masters program in the county where I live, or in any of the immediately adjacent counties. (There are several age group programs.) I want to work on my starts, but none of the Y's where I swim will let me use the blocks - saying that a national Y policy prohibits anyone from using the blocks unless a team/club coach is on the deck.
I have never heard of anyone suing a YMCA because of an accident on a starting block.
Yes, perhaps a coach would be valuable to me in this regard, but I'm not looking for a coach - I need and want a cooperative facility. The age groups' program schedules are not conducive to my schedule, and besides, the age group coaches already have enough on their hands during those times with lanes full of kids working their programs. I also am not excited about having to dodge those kids to do the work I need to do.
Anyone find a way to conquer this litigation-fear-induced insanity yet? Thank you.
No Geek, some of us are arguing that this case has merit, not that it is an example of the worst.
The case was not about spilling a beverage, but the consequences of the spilling.
What most people here (like you) are saying, is that if you have an accident, spilling your coffee, you can expect to get burned. No argument about that. I'm saying (and the jury came to believe) is that a 1st degree burn is reasonable (and what most people have experienced), a 3rd degree burn is unexpected and unreasonable. (I've never had a 3rd degree burn, and can count the 2nd degree burns on one hand.)
Did you ever see the movie "Class Action"? The suit was not to blame the car manufacturer for the accidents. The suit was about the car blowing up in crashes that should have left the occupants shaken but unhurt. (And the car makers were aware of the problem, hid the fact, and did not change their practices.)
Our YMCA has the same rule. We are allowed to dive off the blocks only during our coached workouts. Personally I see no problem with a Masters swimmer practicing starts during the lap swimming time provided the pool is not crowded and he (or she) exercises good judgment.
Of course, he (or she) should not do so while holding a scalding hot cup of coffee.
Originally posted by aquageek
Was the jury asleep for the fact that the WOMAN SPILLED IT ON HERSELF? ...
Something that I doubt was ever investigated or addressed in this lawsuit: Maybe the driver was herky-jerky in his skills and not very smooth on the brake or clutch, and that's what caused the coffee to spill.
Personally I don't drink anything in a car that isn't relatively spill proof -- coffee mug with cover, soda in a can (very small opening), to-go cup with a lid, etc. Cold or hot. I've learned my lesson by spilling too many things in containers with wide openings -- even just going around a corner or starting/stopping. It's a simple matter of fluid dynamics and Newton's laws of motion that we learned in high school physics.
And I know that coffee to-go from McD's comes with a lid, but the story says that she took it off to add sugar and creamer. My take is that the vendor dispensed the beverage with an appropriate lid. The customer's decision to remove that lid in a moving car was solely her own, and beyond the vendor's control. (Kind of like the guy who used a power mower to trim his hedges and ended up cutting off some fingers -- and successfully sued.)
Are any of us who are drinking too hot coffee, and/or wanting to be able to practise our dive entries obese? If so, as of yesterday, its not our fault. It's an illness. (Red Forman on "That 70's Show" would probably label it 'dumb ***' disease.') I just heard a news commentator say that the first and most obvious result of the government's new decision will probably be more people suing food producers - purveyors, for contributing to the severity of their illness.
Now I am REALLLLLY, REALLLLLY mad!
Originally posted by mattson
At 180 degrees, she would have had a fighting chance to avoid 3rd degree burns, as opposed to 190 degrees, where she had virtually none.
OK, make the coffee at the diner 190 degrees and I pose the same question. I know that we will never know, but I have my own personal thoughts on what would have happened. No trial lawyer would take the case because there wasn't millions to be made - only maybe thousands - if that.
Are any of us who are drinking too hot coffee, and/or wanting to be able to practise our dive entries obese? If so, as of yesterday, its not our fault. It's an illness. (Red Forman on "That 70's Show" would probably label it 'dumb ***' disease.') I just heard a news commentator say that the first and most obvious result of the government's new decision will probably be more people suing food producers - purveyors, for contributing to the severity of their illness.
This one irked me too. I realize that there are legitimate cases where people have gland or hormone or other problems that make them gain weight. Those cases are illnesses and have their own name, etc. But just calling obesity a disease is crazy. There are many, many people who are obese just because of lack of exercise and poor eating. In fact, I am a recovering "obese person". Lost 40 pounds in a year and a half and am still losing. I was 5'9"/215 lbs - now 175lbs. Need to lose a few more, but now I realize it isn't my fault. Hey, I should stop swimming and running and just sue for some free liposuction.
Oh, and by the way, I swam a mile this morning and then ran three. Stopped at the local convenience store on the way home to get a bottle of water. Put it between my legs and it was too cold. I know suffer from shrinkage. Do I have a case?:p
Originally posted by swimpastor
Are any of us who are drinking too hot coffee, and/or wanting to be able to practise our dive entries obese? If so, as of yesterday, its not our fault. It's an illness. (Red Forman on "That 70's Show" would probably label it 'dumb ***' disease.') I just heard a news commentator say that the first and most obvious result of the government's new decision will probably be more people suing food producers - purveyors, for contributing to the severity of their illness.
Now I am REALLLLLY, REALLLLLY mad!
It sounds like that commentator isn't quite up to speed on this issue. Those claims have already been litigated in several jurisdictions and they've been pretty uniformly thrown out at both the trial and appellate level, as frivolous (which, by the way, I think was correct -- see, we agree on something :)).
I'm not an expert in personal injury law, but I don't see any legal significance, in the context of personal injury liability, to calling obesity a disease. The main effect would be to allow coverage by health insurers for programs like Weight Watchers -- some state insurance regulations don't allow reimbursement except for treatment of recognized "diseases."
This is an example of one of my pet peeves about news coverage of legal matters. The media report (and sometimes speculate) about "outlandish" cases, but they only tell part of the story and they don't report when cases are dismissed or verdicts are reversed.
To paraphrase Lance Armstrong, it's not about the coffee. The point is that we as a society would rather assign blame to someone else than accept personal responsibility for our actions and their consequences. And sometimes bad things happen to good people.
Now I'm going to finish my (180 degree) latte.
Originally posted by Kim Tarnower
Wow... it's been a long time. As I recall, the players (best with at least 10 or so) pick a shark or two who are in the middle of the pool, the rest of the players are minnows who start at one side and have to swim to the other side through the sharks without getting eaten (tagged.) If tagged, they become sharks. The surviving minnows must make another pass through the growing feeding frenzy until everyone is a shark. Then start over. At least I think that's how it went.
Leonard, did you ever play Marco/Polo? ;)
Sharks & Minnows sounds like something I can do with my nephews (6 & 10) when I visit them in 2 weeks, although we may have to improvise as we'll be in a bay/ocean situation. Thanks.
No to Marco Polo. Remember that I couldn't swim until age 39. Sigh - I missed alot. A classic "late bloomer."
-LBJ
"No trial lawyer would take the case because there wasn't millions to be made - only maybe thousands - if that."
You know, the vitriol that has been spewed in this thread towards lawyers has, in my opinion, gone far enough. Are there bad, greedy lawyers? Sure. Just like there are bad greedy doctors, insurance adjusters, swim coaches and so on.
Most of the lawyers, doctors, swim coaches I know are decent, reasonable, hard working human beings. Many lawyers and doctors do a significant amount of pro bono work to help people who otherwise could not afford counsel at no charge.
There are lawyers who are masters swimmers just like you guys on this forum. We swim pool races, ocean races, volunteer in our communities, raise our families, do our jobs and treat others as we would like to be treated. Heck, there were five lawyers in the water at practice this morning and you know what, not one shark joke from our teammates.
So why not turn the bile down a notch? Remember, karma can be a b**ch.
carl botterud
