I think it is sad we have slipped down the slope we call “being civil”. Being away from these posts for the better part of a week has allowed me to look at them in a different light then before. The thoughts and feelings of many of the people who post here are very raw right now. Decency, understanding, compassion, patience and kindness have been lost to pain and anger.
I have learned some very valuable lessons over the past nineteen months. Often, anger is directly driven by pain. I read pain into many of the post here. People have offended one another and tramped on each others toes and people have been hurt emotionally.
Gosh, I am the farthest thing from a counselor or referee for that matter, but I am qualified to say that each of us has good days, and each of us has bad days. Without exception, EVERY SINGLE POSTER was decent, understanding and compassionate towards me during a very tough time in my life. Ion has a way of invoking anger and hostility in people. Having said that, he reached out to me during a very tough time and demonstrated a very different and compassionate side then the one we see here.
My point, in the final annalists we call life, what more do we really have then one another? We are a body of swimmers who share a common bond for the love of swimming and adult exercise in the water. Let us keep to this course as opposed to offending one another and fracturing our beloved sport with pain, hard feelings and anger. We are different, yet, we are the same. We all love our children, we all want to excel in life, we all want to think of ourselves are winners, we all want to be free people, we all want to raise our families and enjoy life as best we can. Regardless of how fast we are, how smart we are or anything else…. in the final toll….we all want and strive for many of the same things. As we all did on playgrounds all over the world as children, let’s shake hands and make up….
Former Member
Kiwi,
The Applegate open water swim (southern oregon near Medford) this year is Mid July and one day is scheduled for the National 3.5 K championship. Dan Gray does a great job with the races there.
Elk Lake is one of my favorites (July 31 -Aug 1), the scenery is incredible, Mt Bachelor is the back drop and water visability of near 20 feet makes this a great race, that plus the Central Oregon Masters do a great post race festivity and Bend has some great micro brews. I have yet to do Eel Lake which is in August which is next to the southern Oregon coast (I have heard from some swimmers that this too is a beautiful venue). Dorena Lake (just south of Eugene) is also a good race.
In less they have changed the rules since my last open water swim a few years ago, drafting was/is legal - normally not many course marshals for these swims, which might make these events more fun because there is not the high pressure of these rules.
Ion,
I will assume you are being somewhat sarcastic with your answer.
Originally posted by kaelonj
Hey Alison,
I heard from some T-hill swimmers that they were going to try something at Hagg, I believe it was with the Gecko tri-group, unfortunately it hasn't hit the Oregon Masters Calendar yet - Portland Masters use to host an open water swim at Hagg Lake - which like the other events was a lot of fun.
I think this new event with Gecko will be in place of the PMS's former Open Water swim. It sounds like they will have a great event, too. I will probably volunteer (I'm not into swimming with fish):D
Maybe I can meet you there!
While watcing an older participant do the 200 fly, I was talking to another swimmer. He brought up this interesting story:
An elite-level runner was asked where he had the energy to run marathons. The runner stated that he actually had less energy than most. He was fast enough to run a 2 hour marathon. But he saw people who were out on the course for 6 hours. He doubted he could run for 6 hours straight.
So here was an example of an elite marathoner showing his admiration for the competitiveness and hard work of an "average" runner. (If you can call someone who finishes a marathon "average". ;) ) But it is rare for one of the pack runners to dismiss the work ethic of faster marathoners.
Putting in massive amounts of yards shows that the swimmer is dedicated. A swimmer expending a lot of energy during a race can be very impressive. But that is not the only yardstick (or meterstick) for determining good swim training, or what makes a fast swimmer.
This:
Originally posted by gull80
...
I don't dispute the fact that he has done well in spite of his late start. He's posted some solid times and is close to the NQT for the 1000, no small feat for a late starter. His dedication to the sport and his work ethic are impressive. What I object to is the way he tries to arbitrarily handicap the system to place himself at or near the top of USMS swimmers, in the process discounting or dismissing the efforts and achievements of others. I don't believe this represents good sportsmanship, which is part of being a great athlete.
was posted in 'Share some good stories about humanity', where I vowed to not post anylonger.
The post is wrong:
.) USMS swimmers recognized that they don't work as much as they did in age-group days but rely on that for the easier to meet USMS standards;
in fact many recognized that they don't work out much anymore, for example two said this in 'The Fastest Age';
.) without me taking a stand, late bloomers never had a voice, they were deemed in 'for the fun', for losing weight, for making friends but not for the competition;
I still keep in mind posts where my results are demeaned;
this is not good sportsmanship;
I was clear enough on this many times, for people to not confuse good sporstmanship.
Originally posted by Ion Beza
.) USMS swimmers recognized that they don't work as much as they did in age-group days, in fact many recognized that they don't work out much anymore, for example two said this in 'The Fastest Age';
and, in your opinion, is there something wrong withthat?
Being that you come across as very negatively judgemental of it?
Thank you for re-posting my post. Notice that I did not demean your results, nor have I ever done so. On the other hand, once again you imply that the results of those with a background in age group and/or college swimming should be qualified in some way since presumably less effort was required to achieve these times. Perhaps we could place an asterisk next to the times, a la Roger Maris?
Even this:
Originally posted by Ion Beza
...
Simply said, pool swimming is more speed and that's what I look for.
...
got 'challenged' by the picky 'know-it-all' of the forum (who is the fan of Total Immersion and emmett).
Pool swimming judges a swimmer's speed by rendering the water conditions more neutral than open water does:
a.) less turbulence (with heavy lane lines, low gutters, and no currents),
b.) water temperature that is ideal for the muscles,
c.) a black lane at the bottom of the pool that gives swimmers a better position for speed when they look down, than the position in open water when they look above waves;
and
e.) shorter and speedier events, less than a mile.
The drawback, where the water conditions are more neutral in open water, is that pools have walls to accelerate from, but I am a not so good flip turner, so walls are not a big advantage to me, they are still almost neutral to me.
Originally posted by Karen Duggan
Wahoo! I found the ignore button :)
Connie,
I wouldn't say I don't work out as hard, just not as many yards/meters. Thankfully, the 8,000 m workouts are in the past, as is being on the freezing deck at 4:45am.
I am happy to say that I have done my life bests in Masters, and I'm not done yet. Just a brief pause over the last four years to have three kids! In the words of our famous governor, "I'll be back!"
Awesome!
We have quite a few swimmers on our team that are doing their best times in their 30's and 40's then they had as age groupers.
Some of them because they are over the burnout and have renewed interest, other are starting to have little more time for themselves again.
Originally posted by Ion Beza
.) without me taking a stand, late bloomers never had a voice, they were deemed in 'for the fun', for losing weight, for making friends but not for the competition;
I still keep in mind posts where my results are demeaned;
this is not good sportmanship;
Your statement about late bloomes not having a voice is not objective. As I late bloomer myself, the las thing I would want is to have you as a spokesman for the late bloomers.
You got criticized and chewed out for demeaning other peoples times, including the people for whom you pretend to be speaking out for (late bloomers). There is a big difference between that, and people demeaning your times in a fashion you do to other people. When you put people down all the time, the way you do, it is unrealistic to expect taht people will respond to you in kind.
People tend to treat you the way you treat them. Doesnt' that make you wionder how come all these people that get along great with one another all have problem getting along with you??? Do you really think it's all of them, or does it ever cross your mind that it may have something to do with you?
You know, being "right" and being "likeable" are not synonymous, even though you may have gotten used to getting praise and acceptance for giving right answes in Math, most people are not mathematicians. You;re goingabout trying to get acceptance the wrong way, and I know you're trying to gain acceptance, cause you keep mentioning things like 'they're doing ...... (fill in the blanks) .... to me too, and I'm not a monk etc...
I mean, doesn't that fry you when someone is wrong butthey still manage to gain acceptance? Do you ever ask yourself why? Perhaps it's not about being right or wrong.
Hey Alison,
I heard from some T-hill swimmers that they were going to try something at Hagg, I believe it was with the Gecko tri-group, unfortunately it hasn't hit the Oregon Masters Calendar yet - Portland Masters use to host an open water swim at Hagg Lake - which like the other events was a lot of fun.
