Well, the length of this thread seems entirely dependent on Ion's ability to cultivate new theories after his existing ones are quickly put to rest.
I'm thinking his every stroke bilateral breathing technique introduces too much oxygen, thus disproving VO2Max theory. This increased oxygen, coupled with his knowledge of 18 or 19 European languages, gives him super human swimming postulating powers.
Because, after all, if you can't swim fast, it's best to fabricate excuses rather than improve your swimming, huh?
Oh well, Ion, It was not from the U. of I. Chicago, but the University of Chicago, two very different institutions. Confusion is understandable. And no, not many people can remember a private email that they have never seen.
And sorry Lefty, It was a generic comment to all of the people that insist on bringing Ion to task on issues that are not central to him - not you in particular. I should have started a new paragraph before your name, but I still don't consider the accusation of inattention in a long thread like this an attack.
Is the dribble my 'attack' or my summarization of Ion's position? The latter is 'dribble' from me only if Ion denies it. The status of Ion's position (whether dribble or not) is another question.
Originally posted by Ion Beza
Well it is documented that it worked like this for Rowdy Gaines, Steve Crocker, Ed Moses and others.
No. They developed their VO2max the same way everyone else does--through years of training. Natural ability probably didn't hurt either. You can't prove a causal relationship between summer league and Olympic success.
If your training is adequate but is not producing the results you want, then you need to refine your technique. And that may mean less yardage while you modify/overhaul your stroke; in the long run it will pay off.
Summer league counts, hahahaha, apparently no one has seen summer league around here. You cannot get into the water until the second week of June. Then 75% of the kids won't swim because the water is still 75 degrees and they turn blue. The extent of the practice is about 1000-2000 yards of which much of it is do whatever you want this is summer club, we have fun(which is exactly why my daughter loves it!). The week of tapering begins after 4th of July and consists of sharks and minnows and jumping off the diving board. This total yardage done for the season is about the same as 1 week of Ion's training!
Ian, I knew Amanda had recently been pretty impressive, but wasn't there a time after the 1996 Olympics when she went through a growth spurt and she struggled to maintain her times? I think that is common with girls, and as Amanda has now shown, if you stick with it, you can get to the other side and start doing well again.
If I am wrong, forgive me, my memory is failing, I am in the dreaded 40-44 age group of fast VO2 swimmers who were former age group swimmers, and I am not one of them!( Sorry Ion, couldn't resist a little ribbing, don't know if you have a sense of humor or not, but I do, it keeps me sane and I have to blame my bad memory on something!)
Originally posted by Phil Arcuni
Oh well, Ion, It was not from the U. of I. Chicago, but the University of Chicago, two very different institutions. Confusion is understandable. And no, not many people can remember a private email that they have never seen.
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Even if they have seen that e-mail many wouldn't remember.
The right thing to say is:
University of Illinois at Chicago or University of Chicago, that's preety good memory and you, Ion, you pay attention.
This is a precious moment and I'm glad I can share it with you Ion. Since you have run out of ammo for your vast litany of ridiculous claims, to include the rationalization of a theory or two by a veterinarian and a mortician, you are now resorting to chiding me for an event I DON'T EVEN SWIM. I've never swam the English Channel either, I'm so ashamed.
There are many events I don't swim. I'm sure there is an event or two you don't swim. I don't hold that against you. To each his own.
And, for the record, the 1000 was not offered in the summer league that qualifies me as an early bloomer. Actually, the longest event in my home town's summer league was a 50.
C'mon man, get real. You gonna make fun of my momma next? She wears combat boots, BTW.
Ion, I'm still waiting for the paper reference, that talks about age 13-19 being important for VO2Max. (This is not a snide remark. I want to make sure we are looking at the same facts.)
Originally posted by Ion Beza
The fastest age is the age of the Olympian winners because that's where the competition peaks.
(Okay, this one is a snide comment.) So in other words, are you talking about the high school Olympians, or people in their thirties? You are talking about an age spread as long as the time you've been swimming.
Originally posted by aquageek
Ion - I had my suspicions that you wanted to remain the only person in your faux category.
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Many in this forum qualify in my category.
But they are not faster than me.
Originally posted by gull80
No. They developed their VO2max the same way everyone else does--through years of training.
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When they switched to year round training, they were teens and still worked on their VO2Max during some of their lifetime's window for opportunity.
Originally posted by gull80
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If your training is adequate but is not producing the results you want, then you need to refine your technique. And that may mean less yardage while you modify/overhaul your stroke; in the long run it will pay off.
Here:
Originally posted by lefty
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...It should be pointed out that good technique takes considerably more energy than bad technique. WHen I squat 250,my form is much sloppier than when I squat 200. Some people may surmise that I would do 250 eaiser if I cleaned up my technique, but I can't under that stress load.
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is worth paying attention, Craig.
I said the same when stating that swimming fast is not ballet.
It's easier for me too to swim well at low speed and harder to swim well at maximum speed -as Paul saw me and testified about my poor technique but fast times in this thread-:
by the same token but at another level, van den Hoogenband's (Ned.) world record in the 100 free came with a poor start, streamline after the turn shorter than 2 seconds under water, asymetrical stroke, yet energetic -I guess from VO2max-.
Lets regroup this discussion a little, the tangents are becoming outlandish.
Ion core belief:
Not swimming from age 13-19 is a hinderance to swimming development. His explanation for this hinderance is that is the age when VO2 max is developed. Connie and myself agree with Ion in that not swimming from age 13-19 is a hinderance, but we believe that the root of the hinderance has many parts of which VO2 developement max is one.
I do not know were geek, Arcuni, jeff, gull or anyone else stands on the issue.
So I am drawing the line in the sand: Make your opinion known here and now!
