The Fastest Age

Originally posted by aquageek Ion: Do us all a favor, send us the URL on this forum for the category that you are referring to from any USMS meet results. Send it or shut it! Repeat - send it or shut it once and for all! I think that you should document your late starter faster than me, or shut up.

Correct: Originally posted by lefty ... Ion core belief: Not swimming from age 13-19 is a hinderance to swimming development. His explanation for this hinderance is that is the age when VO2 max is developed. Connie and myself agree with Ion in that not swimming from age 13-19 is a hinderance, but we believe that the root of the hinderance has many parts of which VO2 developement max is one. ... As for which hindrance is biggest amongst "...many parts..." that I agree with, I say VO2Max is the biggest.

Originally posted by aquageek I told you Ion that I won't do that without that person's consent. ... Then you should shut up.

Originally posted by mattson W e c a n f:) . It depends on what your post per page setting is in your personal profile.

Originally posted by aquageek I'm not sure I appreciate being compared to a goat but my swim bag can smell a little like a goat if I leave it in my car too long. It should be good enough for Ion, he 's been talking to a veterinarian about the how the VO2Max works anyways. ;)

Originally posted by Phil Arcuni Ion is not the only one who doesn't listen very well. Lefty, this is Ion's position: 3) "If I had swum as a youth between the ages of 11 and 17, I would have been a world-class olympic swimmer, like Popov. My evidence is that I am such a good swimmer now, even though I did not swim between the ages of 11 and 17." Which begs a question: Ion said that he played soccer in his youth. Makes me wonder why he didn't stick with soccer... he could have had that early bloomer advantage and become a world class soccer player, instead of an unfulfilled late blooming swimmer. Or at least Soccer could have primed him for running, like he claims waterpolo primes people for swimming. There are plenty of recognized world class runners even in Ions age category. I wonder why he keeps pounding on the sport for which he lacks the physical ability to become world class athlete, which is the position he apparently covets. Makes no sense.

Originally posted by Ion Beza Even if they have seen that e-mail many wouldn't remember. Sorry, yoiu don't have the knowledge to make this statement with any kind of authority or credibility. It sounds more like just another putdown. Speaking of mental power and memory, how are you doing with your flip-tyurn practice? Have you trained yourself to make that mental switch forma a swim into a good fliptirn that most swimmers (even myself) can do without too much trouble??? Perhaps you could release some of the mental power that you;re wasting here, and take a few minutes to mediotate and visualize yourself flipturning, streamlining and then getting back into the swim-rythm.

Originally posted by Ion Beza I think that you should document your late starter faster than me, or shut up. Just wait till I get my swimming base under my belt, I'll have you for breakfast, on any distance. Ion, have you documented your firat year of swimming, and the progress you made? I'm curious how it went.

Originally posted by Ion Beza Correct: As for which hindrance is biggest amongst "...many parts..." that I agree with, I say VO2Max is the biggest. At what stage of the swimming career does the VO2max become a hinderance? I think you need to specify that to make your arguments clearer. For many people who are getting back to it, and just getting into shape, lack of VO2Max development, if there really is such a thing doesn't come into play untill few years into training. I still remain very skeptical that Vo2Max is a major hinderance. Two main reasons: -Your arguments are pretty fuzzy and inconsitant, it's tough to make out what you mean, and they also change depending on your mood and level of aggrivation. Then you slip up and contradict youreself. -VO2Max and lack of it's development is near impossible to document, and I find it very suspicious that you claim that something unquantifyable is the major hinderance. I do notice that you love to think you're in control, and that it bugs the living daylights out of you when you think you may not be. Having run into something that you think may impact your performance, but can not be quantified myust drive you nuts! I really believe that is the sourse of your 'strong belief' that VO2Max underdevelopment is your hinderance. I think that the thought that VO2Max might be physical hinderance is your major mental disadvantage. I only woinder how it's impacted your training. Perhaps you get so obsessive about trying to develoip the VO2Max to the max, that you neglect things like... flipturns... that might actually help you a lot more.

Children learn faster and adapt more readily than adults. Is anybody really going to argue that point? Anyone who learned competitive strokes as a child has an advantage over the "late bloomer". The more you swam as a child (under 18 or so) in a competitive program, the bigger your advantage. Several factors must be considered. 1) Fine Motor skills 2) Muscle memory 3) Feel for the water 4) Core swimming strength 5) And yes, why not - VO2 Max Every organism in nature adapts more readily when young. In most cases, the 10 year old will learn faster. In Psychology studies of adaptation and learning - youth is always a factor. In any highly skilled activity, the "best in class" learned as a youth. Has anyone every heard of a concert pianist that started playing at the age of 40? How many atheletes on the pro tour started playing tennis at the age of 25? If a sport takes a high degree of coordination and skill - you have a distinct advantage if you learned as a youth. We never lose our ability to adapt. Studies show that people in their 90's can improve musclular strength and aerobic capacity. We can improve at any age but someone who is 50 will adapt faster than someone who is 70 and someone 30 will adapt faster than the person who is 50. It is easier to gain strength and endurance as adult than it is to learn fine muscle coordination. Try teaching butterfly to an adult who started swimming at 28. Now try teaching a 10 year old. How about flip turns? Kids can pick up flip turns in a hour. I have watched adults take weeks. Consider sports that require endurance and strength. Age seems to be less of a factor. Many weight lifters and marathon runners are stronger, better and faster at age 40 than at age 20. Scan the results of triathalons and marathons. You will find many people who place in the top 10% that picked up the sport in their 20's or 30's. Swimming is definately an endurance sport but it is also a sport that requires a very high degree of fine motor coordination and technique. I believe you can develop the strength and endurance as an adult but the coordination, feel and technique are going to be more difficult to learn. ION - this is why you are more competitive in the 1000 than you are in the 100. So what's my point? Age does make a difference - but not because of V02 max. Many other things must be considered too. How about body style and weight? I'm short and dense. I'll never have the same potential as someone who is 6'6". ION - congratulations on becoming a competitive swimmer so late in life and posting respectable times. Everyone in USMS admires determination and accomplishment. ION - What exactly would you like to happen? Do you want the USMS to start a second list of top times for "Late Bloomers?" Michael