The Fastest Age

To Mark Mattson ---------------------- I know the top triathletes from San Diego who go to Ironman Hawaii, and where and how they train. (Jurgen Zach (Ger.) -6th in last's year Hawaii, 2nd. a few years ago in Hawaii-, Spencer Smith (U.K.) -world champion triathlete two years ago-, Chris McCormack (Aus.), Craig Alexander (Aus.), Michelie Jones (Aus.), Paula Newby-Fraser (New Zealand) -multiple Hawaii winner-, etc., they train here.) The lesser known triathletes in San Diego follow the training regimens of the top triathletes by training together with them. They have the differences in training with me that I reported in my earlier post. The triathlete workouts are fitness. If a triathlete is good at swimming -like Dave Scott was- that's because he was an age-group swimmer, not because the fitness triathlon workouts made him a good swimmer as a late bloomer. The fitness triathlon workouts don't make a triathlete who is a late bloomer in swimming a good swimmer. My workouts are coached by coaches with college and U.S. Swimming background who address the five types of workouts that a pure swimmer needs, plus technique. There is no way to confuse the constant pounding that the triathletes do in their training with my workouts addressing all aspects of swimming. Re-read what I posted about how my workouts are different from theirs.

Ion: The only thing I can surmize about you is that you watch too many US ARMY OF ONE commercials and have decided that you are some sort of US SWIMMER OF ONE. This, of course, when not serving cold cuts at the Intel cafeteria on third shirt. You consistently segregate yourself from all levels of swimmers except ultra elite (need a reference, check your Popov entry). You are not elite. You have belittled the following folks: Triathletes,Women,Southerners,Early Bloomers - disproven time and again BTW,People who train more than you,People who train less than you,Older swimmers,Younger swimmers, age groupers, etc, etc - the list is endless. Ion, it's time you stopped trying to carve out some unique class for yourself to make yourself feel better and realize you are just a swimmer like the rest of us. I also find it amusing that you continue to tell the rest of us how weak we are when you can't do real dive, flip turns and have to side to side breathe.

Originally posted by kaelonj Here is my proof to disprove Ion's statement/theory - whatever, that a person who did not swim during their optimal growth years (13 to 19 years of age) could not be a successful masters swimmer (being able to produce a top 10 USMS time) because they have an underdeveloped VO2 max. - since Ion will want proof and names I will give them, which I really prefer not to but maybe this will finally stop this VO2 max nonsense. For the record I did not swim during the my growth years (13 to 19 yrs of age) - I swam age group for a couple of years but quit when I was 11 and didn't start swimming until later on in college when I was 20 (criteria 1 met). I have a couple of top ten times (from relays but still I had to swim/participate) (criteria 2 met, well sort of). Okay you want individual times, I have not posted a top ten times of late, so taking a little liberty since I can't find the top ten times for 86 -88 when I swam college, I'll compare my college times when I swam in my early 20's compared to the current list of top ten times from 93 to present for the 19-24 age group. There are only 2 years (96 and 2001) that I would have failed in posting a top ten time, comparing my fastest college time to the current top ten list. (my college times were: 200 free - 1:50.14 1000 free - 12:02.23 1650 free - 20:01.71 400 IM - 4:47.33Jeff I am not interested in proving or disproving anyone, but thought it was worth pointing out the top ten times for 19-24 do not count for squat as they are clearly the weakest age group. Elite swimmers are still swimming US and college at that age. Also for clarification, Ion, which statement best represents your position: 1) Not swimming in your youth 13-19 is a severe hindrance to your development as a swimmer. Or 2) Not swimming in your youth 13-19 prohibits one from becoming a successful masters swimmer as defined by attaining a top 10 time. Adjust either definition to make it more representative of your thoughts.

Originally posted by aquageek ... Or, is this whole late blooming thing that you can't have ever...or donned a Speedo until your late 20s? What is the arbitrary cut off point that makes you a late bloomer? ... Yes. No summer league allowed. A few summer league years (like 3) equate a full year anyway.

Ion is not the only one who doesn't listen very well. Lefty, this is Ion's position: 3) "If I had swum as a youth between the ages of 11 and 17, I would have been a world-class olympic swimmer, like Popov. My evidence is that I am such a good swimmer now, even though I did not swim between the ages of 11 and 17." Jeff, I warned you it would not work. FYI: I believe that Ion is the Romanian equivalent of 'John' pronounced with a J as soft, like a 'Y'. It sounds just like, as a poor pun by swimmerforrent suggested, like 'yawn.'

Originally posted by lefty ... Also for clarification, Ion, which statement best represents your position: 1) Not swimming in your youth 13-19 is a severe hindrance to your development as a swimmer. Or 2) Not swimming in your youth 13-19 prohibits one from becoming a successful masters swimmer as defined by attaining a top 10 time. Adjust either definition to make it more representative of your thoughts. I go for 1). Absolute fast times, not top 10 in a niche group. I have seen 2) being denied in men 19 to 24 with times slower than mine. I remember a 11:xx in 800 meter free, slower than my ordinary swims in the 800 meter free during the 90s.

Originally posted by Phil Arcuni Ion is not the only one who doesn't listen very well. Lefty, this is Ion's position: Really Phil, let's stay away from attacks. I am not interested in such dribble. Where ever you found that, good job. In this 26 page thread? Wow I am so ashamed I was unable to find it!

Originally posted by Ion Beza Yes. No summer league allowed. A few summer league years (like 3) equate a full year anyway. Wait a minute. I've tried to be objective and approach this as an interesting question in exercise physiology. But do you really believe that a few seasons of summer league swimming as a youth will yield a lifelong improvement in VO2max? That just doesn't make any sense. It sounds like you're just trying to disqualify anyone who might be faster than you on the basis of something as simple as natural ability.

Originally posted by Phil Arcuni Ion is not the only one who doesn't listen very well. ... I don't listen well? How many people can you find who remember like I showed to you in this thread that almost three years ago you wrote an e-mail to me about the linguistic difference between 'calculus' and 'calculations', that I remember that you wrote then that you got a PhD in physics from the University of Illinois at Chicago, that I remember that you asked me to publicly acknowledge in this forum my linguistic confusion, and that I remember I replied to your e-mail with one word ("OK.")? Not that many, huh? Just this thread has this same kind of meticulous details from me, all over the place.

Originally posted by gull80 ... But do you really believe that a few seasons of summer league swimming as a youth will yield a lifelong improvement in VO2max? ... Well it is documented that it worked like this for Rowdy Gaines, Steve Crocker, Ed Moses and others.