I remember P Mulins the author maybe I missed spelled his name talking about swimming being a white upper-middle class sport and the country club set. I guess he had not met Shirley Bashashoff that came from a blue collar background. Anyway, swimmers in elite circles tend to be more from upper-middle families than the non-elite. In high school programs, their are plenty of them from the barrio and the ghetto. Also, he seems to think swimming is divided between whites and blacks. In his state, both Latinos and Asians outnumber blacks. And Latinos are the group lowest on the income level in that state and Arizona mainly done to immirgation. I think the swimming world is seeing that in the states, its not a black and white world anymore,even in the south asians and latins have increase.
Former Member
Lack of facilities is a big deal. It is easy to find a basketball court or field to play football or soccer.
My kids' team practices outdoors in a 50 meter park district pool in the summer. This pool is 40 years old and failing. The park district is in the process of planning a new facility. This new facility in all likelyhood will not include a 50 meter pool. They are planning a water park, with slides and lazy river. That is where the money is. There will be a small 6 or 8 lane 25 yard lap pool, but gone will be the opportunity to train long course.
I do think that once they try to put the programs they had in the long course pool into the short course pool(lessons, aerobics, swimteam practice, lap swimming) they will find that they cannot fit it all, and things will get cut.
Water parks, the way of the world these days.
Doesn't the UK Masters group have their own discussion forums where serious sports like cricket (men in funky white suits drinking beer) and field hockey can be discussed?
As to the lowest form of wit being sarcasm, THANKS, I'll take that as a true compliment from a friend overseas.
"Cricket? Rugby? Field hockey? Why not include basket weaving as a major sport?"
Cricket, rugby and field hockey have a history stretching back hundreds of years. They each require athleticism and skill. Just because they don't happen to fit one individual's definition of sport ... is not the point I was making.
Someone once said that sarcasm (i.e. "basket weaving"!!!) is the lowest form of wit.
Phil:
I humbly apologize for not being clearer in my above post. I believe you understood part of my post but missed the part I did not mention.
You are 100 % correct in your understanding that I see swimming as “colorless”. I always have and I always will.
You are incorrect in your assumption that I think or advocate posts such as this be taken elsewhere. Again, I apologize for not being clearer in that thought process. I believe this is an excellent forum to discuss controversial topics that impact us personally and as a sport. Having said that, it is NOT my call what is posted or not posted within this forum.
Many times I have posted my thoughts and feelings on numerous diverse and wide ranging topics discussed (within this forum). Dialog is healthy, it is enlightening, it is educational, it is often healing, and above all it is our right as free Americans to discuss topics that impact our lives. “General discussions” means just that, wide ranging-broad-universal.
United States Masters Swimming is a close knit body of swimmers from all walks of life and we are “one” in that sports body, but we are unique and different in many other ways. I for one, fully support discussions such as this and I support them in this forum.
Lastly, I may not agree with some of the posts, but I darn sure would fight for the right to respectfully post what we ALL think and believe.
So, where is the funding for building, maintaining and magaging and coaching a team gsupposed to come from?
Especially in the areas where the interest or economical power is low?
Costial areas have nothing to do with swimming success. And the state of Minnesota produced Tom Malchow. At one time the unversity of Indiana was the college powerhouse in swimming back in the 1960's and 1970's. Actually, the state of Arizona landlock produce more medal winners that Vermont or Maine or any New England state in the last olympics. Wyoming has a weak program not because its landlock but because it has a small population. Pools are expensive to built and they are built usually in large urban areas. As for Croatia, its hasn't done that good in swimming. Russia and Urkaine and Hungray are the top medal swimmers from Eastern Europe. And Hungray is pretty landlocked. The first medal swimmer in 1896 was from Hungray.
This is certainly an interesting thread, and not without controversy. Any issues of race and socio-economic disparity will undoubtedly bring about some sensitivities. But there's a hard cold reality that swimming is indeed a sport that not only requires water as the main ingredient, but financing as well.
Some communities may not have the resources to even consider building a pool. It's a lot easier to lay down some pavement for a basketball or tennis court. And if a pool is available to the general public, it doesn't mean that they will come. Not everyone has the money to fork over for a year round membership. It's a sad truth in this great country that many families struggle just to get by. That reason alone may prohibit youngsters from showing up at an early age irregardless of racial backgrounds. By the time kids get into high school, they may have no interest in joining their swim team for their mere lack of experience in the sport.
I would like to think that it's not so much a matter of race, as it is a matter of having access to a facility. YMCA's are abundant across this country, and there's no reason that kids from all ages and backgrounds can't find some pool time. Perhaps this sport is too young to make a comment that it's made up of a more white middle-to-upper class part of the population. Maybe there just haven't been enough swimming pools built to ensure that everyone gets their "feet wet" so to speak.
It's interesting to note as someone pointed out, that sports minded kids these days have dreams of making big cake. Professional baseball, basketball, and football offer a much greater allure because of the insane amounts of money that these athletes take home. Maybe that's why the "underpriviledged" inner city kid is shooting hoops or working on their curve ball. Could swimming be on par with cricket???? Let's hope not.
I think that Aquageek has one good idea. States that are small in population but then to be more in the middle of the income bracket like Iowa may be apart of the future of swimming. Why we don't invest in pools in Iowa or Maine where Ian Crocker came from I don't know. Maybe, the develop of more portable pools would help the rural states be able to have more pools available.
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
It takes a completely different mind set to grind out lap after lap after lap…alone, by yourself, with no interaction with anyone until you reach the end of a set.
Swimmers are different….Am not, are so, am not, are so……
Tom, I hope that last "discussion" isn't going through your head during the longer swims. :cool: (Just ignore those nice gentlemen with the oversized butterfly nets...)
I'm not in good enough shape to do it now, but I used to be able to go on auto-pilot for any swims over 100. Very enjoyable to be able to "meditate" several times a week.
Mark Mattson:
Actually, I used to sing the Barney Song while swimming the mile.
Due to my artificial right hip and my inability to explode off the blocks in order to be competitive in sprint events, I am a distance swimmer. Being forced to swim distance events puts me in a rather interesting place with respect to my mind set...(does not, does to, does not, does to....).
Swimming the mile and long off shore events were some of the times I felt closest to God. In that I mean, I viewed them as a religious experience. For me, I found myself dealing with the grind parts of the swim and my ability to deal with the tremendous amounts of discomfort associated with pushing myself right up to the very edge of my human conditioning. Strange as it may sound, when I swam the mile or long off shore races I had the mind set that this could be my last event or action on this earth. I became stoic and quiet before races and attempted to deal with my inner thoughts of who I am and what I am here for. Without exception I always said my Prayers before these events and asked forgiveness for any transgressions I had committed in my life because I was uncomfortable with the possible outcome of pushing myself to the very edge. But, I knew the very edge was the point where I was about to go…..
Once the race began I set my pace and pushed myself to the point where I was in the middle of that zone where discomfort lurked. I kept my mind in my race by thinking about my stroke length, breathing ALL my air out on the exhale part of my breathing and streamlining off the walls. I attempted to be a disciplined swimmer by paying attention to the things that impact my race. Yet, I always had this deep inner feeling of peace. Almost without exception, I was totally spent at the end of these events. I had nothing left and regardless of my time, I felt a sense of pride that I had come face to face with something that…well, quite frankly, scared the heck out of me, but I did it anyway.
Although I have a rather off the wall sense of humor and pride myself in being able to find humor in the most mundane things in life, I always swam the mile or long off shore events with a serious mind set. Ok, I admit it, I am a bit strange and somewhat bent in my thinking …Am not, am to, am not, am to, not, to, not, to….
