I remember P Mulins the author maybe I missed spelled his name talking about swimming being a white upper-middle class sport and the country club set. I guess he had not met Shirley Bashashoff that came from a blue collar background. Anyway, swimmers in elite circles tend to be more from upper-middle families than the non-elite. In high school programs, their are plenty of them from the barrio and the ghetto. Also, he seems to think swimming is divided between whites and blacks. In his state, both Latinos and Asians outnumber blacks. And Latinos are the group lowest on the income level in that state and Arizona mainly done to immirgation. I think the swimming world is seeing that in the states, its not a black and white world anymore,even in the south asians and latins have increase.
Former Member
The age group meets I have attended are 99% white. Asians are probably the highest minority, with a few blacks thrown in. I think part of it IS economic, year round club swimming is very, very expensive, part of it is cultural. I think the black athletes are drawn to other sports before swimming.
My kids' team has two families with black swimmers. That is 3 swimmers out of 100 swimmers. And one of the black swimmers is adopted into a white family, whose white siblings are on the team. I will say this, she is a darn good swimmer at 6, and I hope she continues.
The kids' summer club teams have more minorities, but still the ratio is widely white dominated. Summer club teams are inexpensive, so not economic there.
I went to girls HS sectionals to watch, again, very few minorities. I guess it depends what state and where in the state. I do go to a lot of meets in Chicago and Indy though and see the same ratios.
There is no doubt that competitive swimming is a middle/upper class sport, and probably a white sport as well. If you are satisfied with that, or think it doesn't matter, than go ahead and bury your head in the sand, but don't tell other people that are concerned about the sport to be quiet about it.
It is not racist to work at making this sport more inclusive, but it is racist to continue the demographic patterns that were established back in the days of segregated pools and the belief that blacks were too 'dense' to make good swimmers. I remember those days, and I am not that old.
This is a thread about swimming and it belongs here. If you don't like it, ask yourself why. If you are OK with your reasons, you don't have to read it.
Swimming should be a sport for the masses. If it isn't, it will continue to lose college programs and this country will eventually be a second rate swimming power. And Masters swimming will get less and less fun.
Swimming will only be popular if it becomes proactively inclusive and little black, latino, asian, and other minority children start to participate. USA Swimming is aware of this and making some appropriate steps. It is not an easy thing to do; I think it should be a higher priority.
It is my belief that issues such as this should be discussed openly and kept in the forefront. Only through open discussion of the problems among the races will we ever come to understand each others' perspective. A greater understanding of minority issues will help USA Swimming break through the race barrier and truely make it open to everyone.
I'm more of a reader than a poster on this forum, but I figured I'd toss in my two cents on this one (well not really on the topic but read on...) It seems that a lot of threads on this forum are hijacked (or started) to discuss race and socio-economic issues in swimming. I'm not sure this is really fair or relevant. If we are suppossed to be a more color-blind society, I don't think constantly drawing race/socio-economic lines in swimming is helping that. I know that USA-Swimming has made efforts to bring swimming to inner-cities and minorities but their attempts have not really changed a lot. So, I don't think dwelling on it in a forum and forcing it into every thread will change much either.
I've read a lot of silly posts but Phil's takes the cake. If we don't make swimming for the masses we will become second rate? This is absurd. The USA is the #1 power worldwide in swimming and has cemented that position in the past 30 years. As a matter of fact, the US is the #1 power or competes for #1 in just about every major sport right now, and if we aren't, we are knocking on the door, save curling, the oddest sport of all.
Swimming doesn't have to be for the masses. Sure, it's a nice little populist thought but no sport has to be for the masses for it to succeed. I continue to be baffled by this notion that we have to take every sport to every corner of America to legitimize it. Then, the do-gooders go a step further by injecting some race element, subtly insinuating that those of us who do swim are de-facto racists. Give me a BREAK. Swimming is wildly successful in America and our programs nationwide bear that out. Have you been to a local pool in the summer on an afternoon?
Take this race baiting to another forum. Leave this forum for legitimate discussions on swimming - it's intended purpose.
Bert, you make an arguable point, but it was not Chris' or Tom's point. Do you agree with them that race should be (is?) not relevant in swimming, and that it is too bad that there are threads discussing it, or do you believe that the post starting a thread should be clear and to the point? Or do you believe both?
As far as I am concerned, the subject of this thread is whether minority participation in swimming is an appropriate subject for this forum. What made it the subject? Because Chris brought it up and I wanted to make an issue of it. Thread subjects are pretty fluid things. Like all swimmers, we need to go with the flow.
;)
I was saying that it just isn't just black and white anymore. California and Arizona and Texas and New Mexico have huge latin populations. By 2040, LA is going to be 60 percent hispanic even if the immigation legal or illegal slowsdown from Mexico. Latins have done no better than blacks as far as elite swimmers are concern in the United States. He was focusing on the black issue because of the black breaststroker Norment could have swam in the the pan-pacific champonship on the relay. P Mulins did mention about the fact that half of Santa Clara youth is asian, What isn't brouht up in the book is the fact that the biggest minority group in California are latins,mainly Mexicans are almost not mention in the book at all. He did mention PabloMorales, a latin who was Cubian and he didn't think that what Pablo did was as significant as Anthony Ervin. As far as asians maybe physical size rather than participated is the problem. Granted, their are top asians from China and Japan but are fewer of them in the states. Also, in figure skating California has top lady figure skaters like Michelle Kwan and that sports cost thousands of dollars more than swimming. But you can be under 6 foot in that sport and be at the top unlike swimming where more of the top swimmers are over 6 feet.
Well, it does depend upon the state as far as high school. In Tucson there are high schools where the majority are Latins, mainly Mexicans. So, the swimmers are going be be Mexican at these schools. The same goes for my old high school in California, now only about 7 percent white now. There are also a lot of asians there too,so the kids swimming are going to be minority more than most places.
