I remember P Mulins the author maybe I missed spelled his name talking about swimming being a white upper-middle class sport and the country club set. I guess he had not met Shirley Bashashoff that came from a blue collar background. Anyway, swimmers in elite circles tend to be more from upper-middle families than the non-elite. In high school programs, their are plenty of them from the barrio and the ghetto. Also, he seems to think swimming is divided between whites and blacks. In his state, both Latinos and Asians outnumber blacks. And Latinos are the group lowest on the income level in that state and Arizona mainly done to immirgation. I think the swimming world is seeing that in the states, its not a black and white world anymore,even in the south asians and latins have increase.
Former Member
Every 6 months the YMCA offers "Splash Week". This is a week of swim lessons, for 5.00. It's objective is to get kids into the Y learning water safety that normally cannot afford lessons. It keeps its costs down by using volunteers. Having been one of those volunteers I observed several things.
The split of white/black is about 50/50 and the ability and eagerness is equal. All these kids want to learn to swim, and have a good time.
Last spring I had one 11 year old black girl who watched my 10 year old zip around, found out she was on swim team and really showed a strong desire to be on swim team. She worked really hard in those 5 days, and for the short amount of time, really showed improvement. She asked for the number of the swim team office, and I gave her the name and number to contact knowing sadly that I probably would not see her. Why, because she also told me she played basketball and at 11 was already about 5-5 and very athletic. I am fairly certain she is playing basketball and enjoying it. It is an activity her family will be able to get her to easily as it usually practice right after school. No driving clear across town to get to the pool in the evening.
Swimming takes a tremendous amount of parental support. I am not saying that these kids don't have support, but if the parents are struggling to make ends meet, it is even harder to get the time to get their kids where they need to be.
That said, isn't there an inner city team in NYC that is succeeding with this? I thought I read an article a few years ago in Swimming World about this team.
Originally posted by laineybug
Everyone is an individual, but there are groups out there that have things in common. These groups are under represented in our sport. If we want to reach those groups then we need to understand how we are failing now.
Maybe certain groups also have sports preferences.
Are they under-represented in certain sports because there is no access to facilities, or are they under represented because of the "image" that sport has within the demographics.
Also, getting good at some sports (like football) has a potential of a huge payoff. Payoff in swimming is... well, not the same as in football or basketball, to say the least.
Building more pools in certain areas is not always likely to get more people, or kids to swim. The image that particular sport has within the familial, social, cultural and economic undercurrents of a specific demographics is what will make it popular or not popular. That old..."You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it... swim"
If you want more people swimming in the elites, and in general, find a way to make it into a more of a spectator sport, and you'll have all the money you want, on all levels.
In the meantime, it's going to remain the 'upper class-as you guys are calling it' athletic sport for those who can afford to participate in it.
In my case, having come from a different country and culture ... Croatia-Mediterranean, there was a very different image to swimming. Had almost nothing to do with the economic element.
For a very small country (5 mil), Croatia has enjoyed a decent success in swimming and waterpolo at the elite levels.
I'd venture a guess, that much like in australia, the ratio of the length of the coast to the population had a little something to do with the country's ability to produce the elite.
It's when you don't have the natural resources that you need to pour extra money into the facilities.
So, I can see it much more costly to produce elite swimmers out of a land-locked, cool weather place like Minesota or Wyoming, then it would be on a mediterranean coast.
I'd expect people from minesota to excell in sports that are more incidental to the natural resources available to them.
As for Ausatralia, it is my understanding that most of the country's population is concentrated in coastal areas, so... no big surprize that they crank out good swimmers.
The race issue is one we can discuss for years if we want. When it comes down to getting the best athletes to swim race has nothing to do with it. It is about money. If I am an inner city kid (regardless of race) with no money what sport do you think I want to try to excel in? Swimming? It is obvious when I see so much money and glory being thrown to football/basketball/baseball that if I want to succeed financially, I play one of those.
Australia is the perfect example. One of the main reasons they have such a succesful program with such a small athlete base is that swimming is popular there and you can make a pretty good living there in endorsements, etc. Look at Phelps and his $1,000,000 offer. He has to equal Mark Spitz's incredible feat (and I hope he does) to get the bonus. Imagine what the same caliber athlete in almost any other sport (those mentioned above as well as golf, tennis, track, etc) would make with that accomplishment.
If we want to get the best athletes, we need to make swimming more popular to the general public. Until that occurs expect the best athletes for the most part to choose other sports as well as many more college programs will continue to bite the dust.
I do think the marketing of Phelps this Olympic year might make an impact. Watch and see how they sell him. My expectation is that he will be perceived as just your average kid who listens to his MP3 player likes Hip-Hop/Alternative music and they appeal to the mid teen audience with him. His success and age as well as his personality is just what this sport needs to reach the broader demographic of non-swimmers in their early to mid teens.
I also think the Race Club that Hall is working hard on is trying to bring swimming to the masses with high spped exciting racing atmosphere. Whether or not it works is a whole other issue.
Just interested in the following quote from an earlier post:
"Sure, the Australians are good swimmers, but they stink at most other sports (save Volleyball)."
Interesting then that in recent years, Australia have competed at top level in swimming, rugby, cricket, athletics, cycling, rowing, diving, field hockey .... and presumably volleyball.
all this, from a population of fewer than 20 million!!!!!
- and the population of North America is???
All things considered, for a relatively 'small' nation, they don't appear to be doing that badly.
Just a thought....
Sam Perry as well as I knows that Arizona has a lot more hispanics than blacks. How many Mexican kids from the barrio aim to be Basketball players or football players. Baseball players they are more likely to aim at. Blacks make up only 4 percent of our state population. So, in our state its what poor whites which Arizona has more than California does and hispanics want to go into to make money with the sports than either blacks or asians.
Sam hits on a good point, money, and add to that noteriety.
I open the sports page of the local paper. First is the years top ten, which is mostly football and basketball dominated. The tennis team at the U of I got mentioned(they only won NCAA). A sprinter got mentioned(she only won gold at Worlds and turned pro), but U of I's pitiful football team was 2 or 3, U of I's losing its basketball coach, number one.
Then you turn the page, and you see collage football, bowl games, and the next page is prep basketball. On any given day, there are at least two pages devoted to prep basketball or football, and usually if there is a HS swim meet, it gets a small paragragh buried in other sports.
Also, the YMCA programs for basketball and football are fairly inexpensive and also offer scholarships. So if I am a black mother in government subsidized housing trying to keep my kids out of trouble and in school, I am going to use programs like the ones offered by school, park district and the Y rather than the $90-110 per month price tag for swimming on a club team.
And the club teams trying to offer scholarships?, They are barely keeping afloat with the cost of pool-time and coaching, they cannot afford to give scholarships.
Sorry, Sam Perry if I sounded rude on the subject. Well I for one would like to drop the subject. We all have different ideas and its not going to be solved overnite.
I live in a small town with a very nice YMCA. The facility is centrally located and within five minutes of just about everyone in town. There is a six lane 25 yard indoor pool and a year round swim team. The local high school team works out at the same time and shares coaching. What I've noticed is that the youth basketball league is full (I think they had to turn some kids away this year) whereas the swim team is very small. And of course swim lessons are offered for all ages, all levels of ability. My point is that most of the kids would rather play basketball than invest the amount of time and effort required to participate and excel in swimming. In this particular case, for what it's worth, race and/or socioeconomic status do not seem to influence access to swimming as a sport. Obviously role models (or lack thereof) and the perceived monetary gain (or lack thereof) could be factors in choosing basketball over swimming. Or maybe basketball just seems like more fun.
Craig, you make an excellent point. Let’s face it, swimmers are a seriously different bunch. It takes a completely different mind set to grind out lap after lap after lap…alone, by yourself, with no interaction with anyone until you reach the end of a set. I remember a kid when I first started to swim back in 1958 or 1959 telling me he did not like the silence. He said it was boring to swim lap after lap and never have the opportunity to talk to anyone. Soon after he made that statement, his swim team experience came to an end. The solitary nature of our sport is not for everyone.
Swimmers are different….Am not, are so, am not, are so……
