Swimming Finals at the World Championships in Barcelona, Spain

Honest to goodness, I attempted to stay out of this and not get sucked into this, but....I could not let this go bye... He is my point in a nut shell....If a swimmer like Matt Biondi has the following career highlights (credentials) it is vulgar (in my opinion), to utter the nonsense about "Flash in the pan" when talking about his standing. Not only is it vulgar...it is down right ignorant! Matt Biondi CAREER HIGHLIGHTS • Captured eight Olympic gold medals during his illustrious Olympic career. • The most decorated U.S. Olympian ever (tied with Mark Spitz), winning 11 total medals during his career. • Anchored three world-record setting relay teams at the 1998 Seoul Olympics; 4 x 100 freestyle, 4 x 100 medley & 4 x 200 freestyle. • The first swimmer in history to capture seven medals at the World Championships; 1986. • Honored as the United States Olympic Committee’s Male Athlete of the Year; 1986 & 1988. • Four-time All-American in both swimming and water polo; 1983-87. • The first swimmer in 56 years to sweep the 50-,100-, and 200-yard freestyle events at the 1986 NCAA Championships and the only swimmer to repeat the feat the following year.

Hey, Skip. You got a cheerleader here: Originally posted by Tom Ellison Hey Skip: What do ya really think? Nice homework.... Who writes "...Nice homework..." at the level of a standard of 'knowledge' matching his previous standard of 'knowledge' from an earlier post in this thread stating that Tom Dolan (U.S.) is (present 'is') training.

Ion- You are wrong. Frank provided written documentation, numbers, and interviews to prove Biondi's "story." READ carefully what he wrote and UNDERSTAND his points. If you need clarification, ASK. You are debating in circles. Please realize your "list" is simply that: yours. Enjoy it as we all have ones of our own. You are infamous for baiting others, offering smirky comments and retorts, hiding behind your language/cultural barriers when they suit your needs, and dropping innuendo. This time, you were PROVEN wrong. You are a wealth of information. In many cases, it can be tremendously appreciated. You must realize however, that people who "debate" here CAN and DO have ideas/thoughts that differ from yours and ON OCCASION, can be "more right" than even you. Please appreciate that and be considerate. We have all slipped into bittterness and negative comments at times (myself of course included), but we should rise above. You lead many of these discussions...take a larger role and be a better person. I am thrilled with the research and commitment to proving that one of the best swimmers in US history is indeed one of the best the world has EVER seen. Not THE best, but ONE of the best (that's MY list!)

Originally posted by Bert Bergen Ion- You are wrong. Frank provided written documentation, numbers, and interviews to prove Biondi's "story." READ carefully what he wrote and UNDERSTAND his points. If you need clarification, ASK. You are debating in circles. ... I read it. He claimed to address my statements. I claim (including in my rebuttal to him, above) to address my statements better than he does. For example: telling me, that I am not qualified to speak about Olympians because at the USMS Nationals I rank in the bottom 20% in my age group? Once again: .) who gets me at the USMS Nationals has swimming VO2Max from kiddie age-group swimming, not for outdoing me in USMS and starting swimming as an adult past the growing phase of the body; .) I still look for who started swimming in the late 20s and overtakes me, but cannot find the person. In this experiment supporting my claim, you take Tim Montgomery (U.S.), mid 20s, fast twitch as in having the world record in the 100 meter dash in track, you put him now in the water hoping that as an adult he will develop enough swimming VO2Max in order to make the U.S. Olympic Team in swimming, and I wish you good luck. I repeat: I wish you good luck. Because, that's the type of challenge that I take in USMS. In spite of such an ignorant... I shake my head... He should know better, after reading about my stance on this for a while on the board, and seeing me in the shape of a slim, firm competitor in meets. Originally posted by Bert Bergen ... Please realize your "list" is simply that: yours. Enjoy it as we all have ones of our own. ... You realize it too, only now? It's long due. Like six days ago. I posted this yesterday: ......................................................................... No, Bert: Originally posted by Bert Bergen ... If a swimmers worth and place in history is based upon Olympic success along (in Ion's eye: gold medals),... ... A swimmer's "...place in history..." must be judged on about 50 different criteria, who knows... My 'flash-in-the-pan' criterion, is a criterion. For me. A criterion for me to claim this, on July 24: Originally posted by Ion Beza Confidential Information: ... Still, Popov went undefeated in the 100 meter free for eight years, got defeated a little in some major meets but kept in touch with challenging for #1 in major meets, and unlike a flash in the pan (see Matt Biondi (U.S.) before and after 1992) raised himself again to nail this one here. ... It then triggered the discussion of me defining the 'flash-in-the-pan' Olympic winner, as being an Olympic winner who doesn't win in other Olympics. .........................................................................

The bookies in Vegas are currently offering an over/under bet on when this argument will finally die a merciful and well-deserved death. Current over/under point is "eternity". Place your bets. -LBJ

Originally posted by Frank Thompson ... The point I was trying to make about your swimming or take anybodys swimming for that matter is that Matt Biondi is in the Hall of Fame for his swimming accomplishments and I respect that. Who are we to question that. Now I know that you think he should have stuck around for 4 more years and try to go to the next Olympics at the age of 31 but in November of 1991 he told the swimming community that he did not intend to be a professional swimmer. ... My disappointment with Biondi would compare with a disappointment in Lance Armstrong's (U.S.) cycling, who with a potential to win five Tour de France races would have retired after the first. By the same token, my appreciation of Popov (and of Franck Esposito (Fr.) too) compares with an appreciation of Lance Armstrong's tenacity (and Pete Sampras' too -who I mentioned earlier-) for being the best over a long time. I speak about this disappointment and appreciation from the 'height' of me ranking in the bottom 20% at the USMS Nationals in my age group, having joined my first swimming club at age 28, and dedicating as much as I do to training, racing and reading in order to be the best over a long time under these circumstances. Which is dedicating a lot compared to what I see around me.

Y'all, please stop. No one will ever prove his/her point to the satisfaction of the other side. Maybe we should start a poll and ask how many readers want this thread to a) continue or b) DIE, please, DIE! :p

Aquageek, I humbly stand corrected.... Maybe we should make the criterion for a swimmer to rise above "flash in the pan" status as ONLY those that...not only swim fast, win golds in many Olympic Games, but walk on water as well....now we may be getting close to a real swimmer.... Ok, I give in ....not only MUST they walk on water...they have to run the 100 M dash on top of the water... under 9 seconds, and win track gold in 3-4 Olympic Games...Wow, now that is not flash in the pan stuff....

Aquageek, I wasn’t directing my obvious sarcasm towards you…. Elaine is right…we really should let this die….I just could not resist…and I apologize for my sarcasm…

Thanks to everyone who participated in this debate. It was extremely interesting and informative. I am very impressed with the knowledge of historical swimming figures that so many members have. I've learned a lot following this thread. Everyone made good points for the rest of us to consider. Its great to have debates such as this. Elaine