HIgh schools not allowing girls on outside teams

why can't women swim on USA swim Team during their high school years? i have noticed that girls swim with boys on the teams where i train... isn't this the case everywhere else? peace...

Some states like Missouri are forcing swimmers to chose between high school teams and USA teams. And not all programs intergrate the sexes. On another swimming board on Aol, a girl commented that she swam on a USA swim team but the high school team only practice at 2,000 yards for the girls, she didn't say what the guys did in yardage. Anyway, the mother of the high school girl in Missouri is suing the state and other sports are effective in that state as well. Unless, the high school programs during the school season can have a program for the better swimmers or the year-round swimmers that are similar to the USA programs, I think that they should allowed people to particapte on outside clubs. In my day, the high school programs were so far behind for the girls that swimming on an outside club is the only way you could have made CIF or in some states the state meet.

Wait a minute, Are you saying that there exists rules in Missouri HS Sports Association that explicitly say that womens' teams cannot exceed some kind of standard, be it practice time or distances allowed, that is lower than the mens standards? I do not believe this. It's probably more like the coaching quality/philosophy. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't HS sports (nationally) follow the same rules and regulations that NCAA Division 3 follows? This would not allow hard rules to be set, not allowing HS swimmers to also swim USS. Again, this is probably a coaches choice. I know my USS club coach was totally against his swimmers swimming HS, and would pressure us not to. But, he was not allowed to bar us from doing so. Instead, he would simply use the 'power of the purse' (How the federal govt controls state laws) to pursuade us. But if you were good enough, coach still needed you and his 'persuasion' (sp?) had no affect (or is it effect). Here is my own experiance with this sort of thing. I coached a club of over 120 kids from ages 6 to 18 for 10 years. When I first started, fresh out of college, I tried to apply the same training tecniques to the older kids. I quickly learned that they simply could not do the yardage I was demanding. And trust me, I was trying to get them to 3000-3500 in an hour practice. Not alot in my book. I found 99% of them would just sit out of sets. (believe it or not, the only swimmer never to sit out, was a girl! And, now, in college, she is doing 1:04s in the 100 ***) My impression was, they either lacked the mindset to do the yards, or they had been programmed over the years, by former coaches, for less yards. Rarely, did they break 2000yds. Finally, I found distance (about 2500) where the kids would do, without sitting out during sets. Joe Bubel

In MA they do require that you attend HS practice in order to participate in a meet. (Miss practice that week and you cannot swim a meet that week). This ensures that every team member attends HS practice. HS coaches have no choice but demand that their USA swimmers be at HS practice. The year-round USA swimmers either float through the HS practice, "attend" the practice but actually sit in the stands and do their homework and then practice with their USA team earlier that morning or later that afternoon/evening. This does make it harder on the USA swimmer but it seems that most still elect to swim HS and enjoy the team aspect of the sport.

It is a fact that in Missouri and some other states athletes can not participate in both their club team and their HS team. In some cases it is not tied to attending workouts, just participation. For example, a swimmer attending a USS meet during the season (or a practice, even) will be ineligible to be in a HS meet (or a HS team) for the season. I think this is true in California also, though the rule is often ignored.

I may be wrong on this (won't be the first or the last) - but in California a swimmer could still attend USA teams practices and swim in USA meets - they just couldn't swim in USA meets representing a team (ie they had to swim unattached during High School swim season). I coached High School swimming in Calif and we actually encouraged our swimmers to swim year round and attend their respective club practices, we had requirements for lettering in the sport (attend X amount of practices and X amount of swim meets or Score X amount of points at the league finals meet or qualify for CIF and of course remain academically eligible) which was set by the coaches. I do know that some school systems have strict requirements in regards to contact with swimmers during season and off (no practices on Sunday, during swim season we weren't allowed to coach a club team that had members of our high school team). Jeff

As I understand it, the Missouri State High School Activities Association (MSHSAA) has a rule (Section 235 of their code) that prohibits student athletes (male and female) from concurrently participating in a high school sport and the same sport with a another organization. This would include practicing or competing with a USA-Swimming club, or taking private swim lessons. One of our Masters swimmers, Leo Letendre, has first hand knowledge of the intricacies of this problem. A year or two ago, he took the MSHSAA to the Missouri Supreme Court (and lost) in an attempt to allow his daughter to compete with her High School swim team.

That there were no discrimnation in girls and boys programs in high school or community college. I swam back in the 1970's and there was a lot of different in the yardage between boys and girls then. The guys at my high school played water polo year round and when they swam during the spring period they did yardage around 5,000 to 10,000. The girls team didn't even do 1,000 yards. In community college the men's team did double practice, the ladies team did at the most 6,000 yards. I know that there is more different today than 30 years ago but to say there was no discrimnation 30 years ago is to deny reality. And I think the state of Missouri and some of the other states is making it hard for both girls and boys.ls

I swam way back in the 1970's and they didn't care if you representive the AAU team or not. Some girls like Shirley Babashoff even swam on the guys high school team. The rules were different way back then. Not representing your USA team is ok but making kids chose between being on the high school team or not being able to practice on USA team is dumb. And as the article stated some people have been cheating the rule and placed high in swimming or other sports,anyway. Anyway, Missouri is way behind the the times.

Hi Rob, I guess the issue would be participation and how Missouri defines this. Going back to my example of CIF - swimmers had to swim unattached in a USA (USS) swim meet during High School season, once High School swim season was over they could compete with their club team - so the CIF deemed participation as just the competing. It sounds like Missouri defined it as outside practice which could be rather sticky. If I was on the High School Golf team and went and played a round or even went to the driving range would I be in violation ? (probably not since I was on my own) But what would happen if someone came by and said I should adjust my grip, open /close my stance I just received some coaching so technically I would be in violation. Another issue would be what happens if a swimmer doesn't have a school swim team - where do they go for coaching ? Looks like some people in Missouri need to work on this, speaking from some first hand knowledge, most college coaches are going to look at USA meets / results - I know of one High School swimmer who was being threatened by the High School coach about lettering because they were going to a BIG USA meet and were going to miss a High School dual meet. This swimmer was being scouted by a few colleges and needed the exposure, so the USA meet was more important to the swimmer's future than the High School meet.