Track start vs. Traditional start?

I spoke to one of the Harvard coaches (Div 1 currently ranked in Top 20) about starts and he said about 80% of his swimmers use the track start. The "prevailing wisdom" is that the track start gives you faster reaction time but he emphasized that for swimmers with really good breakouts they might find the grab start more effective. They encourage their swimmers to use the start that gives them the greatest advantage.

I came across this and it stuck in my fin. I am one of those people that has a hard time getting the "right" information on items like this. Not only with starts but with different turn styles, Wall touch styles etc. ...the, what is the right and legal way to do these things? This reply states that "My daughter was told by a starter that she had to use a "track start." That Really bothers me because all the starters should be aware of the multiple and proper ways to do these starts, turns etc. When I compete in meets the last thing I want is to get disqualified for a start or turn that is clearly legal. When I learned to do starts and turns I did them until I got comfortable with them so when I compete I wouldn't have to think about them when I compete. We can read the rules until we are blue in the face but is it the starters and refs "opinion" that ultimately determines what's legal? Is there someone out there that is very experienced with the rules that can not only answer some of these questions but send it "upstream" so that we dont get disqualified when we compete? Originally posted by rseltzer Interesting thread. I recently learned in talking to a Div 1 women's college coach that most of her swimmers use the track start because that is what they were taught as younger swimmers. My daughter was told by a starter that she had to use a "track start." This is not within the rules of competition but I've never seen any of the HS girls use a grab start. I suspect the popularity of the track start is that it's easier to teach and you are less likely to false start (a big factor for younger swimmers). I think the grab start is faster for me. I'm able to keep my weight forward and can balance on the edge of the blocks holding on with my barest fingertips. This helps me get off the blocks faster. I also think that my entry is somewhat steeper using the grab start versus track start. I find this steeper entry works wells for me since it means more torque and that translates into greater distance off the dive. It may be that the grab start works better for swimmers who have "larger" body types (that's me). :confused: :confused:

Well folks, it was pretty comical at the meet this weekend, with Bill Tingley shouting instructions from the stands on how to start as I was climbing up on the blocks! His recommendation was neither a track start nor a grab start. I had both feet at the front of the blocks, hands in between, and resting against the front of the block. When the horn went off, I was supposed to go forward, with my hands pushing off the front of the block. The first race I tried this on was the 50 free. I could tell it was slower than the track start. And I didn't exactly execute it well, as I nearly scraped bottom, I dove so deep. BUT in spite of all that it was my fastest 50 m (SCM) since 1998. I got much more out of that start than the track start. More important for my peace of mind, I felt more stable with both feet down, not trying to balance on one foot. My next attempt, on the 100 ***, was MUCH better. I was way out ahead of everyone in my heat on the start. Of course, that disappeared once we actually started swimming. But still, any part of your race you can improve can only help. My times in the 50 & 100 *** were very similar to what I did at LC Nationals in Cleveland. Considering I have not been in the water much lately, I was very happy with my times. My 100 IM was 3 seconds faster than this time last year. All in all, a great meet. Cynthia: I'm flattered you looked up my times! Thanks for the encouragement. Wayne: You have hit the nail on the head when you say the track start is probably the only style the UK coaches know how to teach. That was sort of my point, although I didn't state it explicitly. I had been using that start because that's what they told me to do, but I think I always knew, deep down, it was not the best start for me. Bottom line is that you have to use the start you feel most comfortable with, or that your creaky body allows you to use! Meg

I don't think there is much chance that you'll encounter any problem from a starter in terms of what kind of start you elect to use in masters competition--just as long as you promptly come down into the start and hold it steady. I referenced my daughter's comment not out of concern that swimmers would be DQd for using a particular type of start at any level of swimming (though it is pretty amazing someone could make a young girl wonder if only one kind of start is legal) but rather as an illustration of the overwhelming popularity of the track start among younger swimmers. Regarding "opinion" versus rules in my experience refs and officials follow the rule that if they didn't see a clear violation of an explicitly stated rule they don't call it. Refs are pretty particular about this and I personally observed an objection to a DQ for a one hand touch upheld because upoon questioning the stroke and turn judge couldn't exactly remember which hand was used for the touch. In other words, I wouldn't be concerned about "right" starts in terms of legal starts. Now turns are more complicated and matter of another whole discussion (anyone out there remember the DQ of Kristin Quance in the 400 IM at 1996 Olympic Trials?).

Forgot to mention that either start can be ineffective if done poorly ! I swam in our local meet this last weekend and used my famous grab start, as usual. I have no idea how it happened, but I landed flat as a pancake.....not too streamlined, that's for sure ! The worst part of it is, I drenched the Referee and Starter from my position in lane #1. Good thing I know those people and vice-versa, so they knew it wasn't deliberate. Hadn't done one of those in 40 years............... Very embarrassing ! Bert PS: Maybe I need more practice than 2 sprints at the meet.

Wayne- I thought your one comment was interesting, that actually a majority of the Olympic sprinters used the grab start over the track start. It seems lately that more and more kids are being taught the track start, and when you ask their coaches anything about starts, one answer I've heard is "Oh, everybody does track starts now, it has to be the best." That's not a great decision-making process to take. But I do think that with the amount of world-class swimmers that are using the track start, there has to be something to it. A swimmer like Ervin or Hall wouldn't use the track start if they (and their coaches) thought they could lose from 0.5 to 1.0 seconds during the dive and underwater portion. For some reason the track start works for them. That is why I wouldn't completely rule out experimenting with the track start with swimmers of all levels. The most important aspect of the first 15m of a race is to preserve as much of the initial start speed as possible. Here's where having film and high-tech instruments would help... Speed through the air is faster than speed through water. So the goal would seem to be to travel as far in the air as possible. But that may involve spending too much time in the air. Let's say swimmer A enters the water at 5m because they did a nice high start presumably from a grab position. Swimmer B does a track start and enters the water at 4m. It is possible that swimmer B is still better off *IF* they are at 5m at or sooner than swimmer A and if they have a higher initial in-the-water velocity. The only place to go once entering the water is slower, so A will not catch up during the underwater glide portion and will have to make up the time with superior streamline and/or kick. Those factors being equal and B will have won the start. Increasing distance in the air by jumping higher won't necessarily give you a faster start. It could add too much time to the start. Now I have to say, I like the grab start better. I use the grab start and teach the grab start. I only teach a track start to swimmers who seem to go too deep. And even then the results are mixed. Some catch on real well and instantly improve, others we go back to the grab start a work on shallowing out the underwater portion to make best use of the start speed. It is absolutely amazing how much (esp. in age goup swimming) of an advantage good wall work is over the rest of the field. I would guess that an average age group swimmer can take at least 1.0 seconds off at the start and on each turn if their coach(es) take the time to work with the swimmer to find out what's best for them. Some questions to answer would be: Does the swimmer have good/poor leg strength? Does the swimmer have good/poor streamline? Is the swimmer a weak/strong kicker? Does the swimmer tire easily? If you answer these questions about a swimmer you can come up with the most effective way to coach their wall work. Someone with poor leg strength would probably be better off with the grab start (2 poor legs being better than one). Poor streamlines need to be tightened up. Weak kickers should surface and swim at 4-5m while strong kickers might benefit from 8-10m underwater. A swimmer who tires easily has to take that into account when deciding how much time they will spend in full exertion underwater. Going into oxygen debt during the last 50m of a 200m (SC) free might be worse than not stretching the streamline dolphin for 10m off each wall. Well I went off on somewhat of a tangent there. But does anyone have the answer to the question of "why has the track start become so popular of late?" Regards, RM

Micheal, Prince of darkness, "I remember Kristin Quance. On the transition from the back to the *** in the 400 IM she was toward the back when her feet left the wall. I was not there, but talked to two deck officials who were there. They said it was a good call." You can say it was a great call and a wake-up to all swimmers and coaches who get lazy. I say the video of her turn a dozen times, and a dozen times she did not turn past the vertical towards the breaststroke until her FEET crossed the "T" of the lane line. Her defense was it did not help her gain and advantage. It was obvious that this is how she practiced in workout and she just expected not to be called on it. By being lazy she lost a Gold medal. I agree with Rain Man, when I coach age group or Masters I can often cut one second on a start clinic and 1/2 to one second on turns and underwater and breakouts. The rest of the world is teaching the grab start because they feel it is faster. All it takes is one or two photo's in Swimming World magazine showing a track start and all the kids emulate it. So many times Swim , Swim Technique and Swimming World have photos with bad technique. Just because the photo comes out good doesn't mean it should be printed in national magazines. As to grab starts, you travel through the air at the speed of gravity at 9.4 meters per second. Most people who use the track start enter the water 6 to 10 feet from the starting block. If a grab start is used expect 10-11.5 feet. The goal of PowerStarts is to extend that distance to 12-14 feet. One interesting thing with the Powerstarts is they use the arms in much the same way as we did back in the 50's and 60's with the windup start. By exploding the hands quickly above the head the upper body gets lighter, allowing for a better use of the leg strength to push the now lighter lower body into a higher arc. Much easier to demonstrate than talk about. There is also much mention in PowerStarts to the "Magic Surge" which translates the speed of the start into momentum swimming. What I want to find is the best way to do things, not the conventional way. This is one reason the Power Starts attracts me. Coach Wayne McCauley ASCA Level 5

Phil, I have to respond to one of your comments about "grabbing" the blocks. It is called a "grab" start because you are supposed to grab the front of the blocks. By grabbing the front of the block, the swimmer can tug on the front of the block when the starting signal goes off. This immediately brings the swimmer's center of gravity forward for the next phase of the start. The benefit of the "grab" start done in this manner is several fold: a) you don't have to lean forward risking loss of balance, b) you can have both feet forward for better power instead of one foot back that helps move your center of gravity foward, c) arms move your center of gravity faster than legs. Wayne's comment about diving through a hole is of utmost importance. There used to be NCAA swimmers who go streamline in the water at the 3 meter mark carrying better speed than those who go through the air only to land flat. I teach the track start to younger swimmers because they don't have good leg strength or flexibility these days. Then, to get better height on their starts, I string surgical tubing across the pool (about 5 feet out from the end and 6" above the starting block height) and make the kids dive over the tubing. It forces upward leg and shoulder drive. All of my 10 & unders are going 9-12 feet in the air and mostly streamlining upon entry. As they get older and understand better, I try to switch them back to both feet forward. Personally, as I get older and not quite as strong in the hips and legs, I use a combination of track start foot placement with a grab on the front of the block. Have any of you timed yourself from the start to when your head passes the backstroke flags? You should consider this as a means to test which start gets you 5 yards the fastest. In my opinion, water entry and streamlining and breakout can be done equally well with either start. Kind of like a Mr Potatohead start. Put the best pieces together. See if any of you are under .9 seconds for the above mentioned situation. Height may have some bearing, but in my experience - not as much as you might think. My two cents worth. Paul Windrath

Everytime I post I swear I will post less, but no way can I resist a post like Wayne's. The phyics of swimming if very complicated, but the least complicated part is the start. After all, it is *only* rocket science!:D By that I mean in both cases you have a body (rocket or swimmer) acted on by a propulsive force (legs or rocket exhaust) in gravity. I will talk about the propulsion in this post. Before I continue I want to point out that 'grab' and 'track' are misnomers. I would never coach that the swimmer grab on the block, rather the hands are placed against the front of the block to help maintain balance and to perhaps aid in tipping the swimmer past balance at the very beginning of the start. Anyone who looks at a real track start recognizes that much of the runners weight is on the arms, which are well in front of the feet. It is a swimming rule that at least one of the feet be at the front of the block, and in practice all of the weight is on the feet. The most significant difference between both swimming starts is that the center of mass of the swimmer is over the feet, while in a track start the center of mass of the runner is well in front of the feet. This makes a runners start much more efficient translating the force of the start into forward momentum. In both swimming starts the center of mass must be shifted over the water before any push can be effective. This shift takes time, and any good start requires that before the gun blows the swimmer is teetering on the edge of balance. I don't see how the swimming track start can be more stable, and some of the previous posts indicate that for some it is, and for some it isn't. Ignoring for the moment issues like reaction time and stability (which I think are marginal issues at best) it is common (and correct) sense that you want to push off the block with as much force as possible. The back leg of a track start can not be pushing as much as it could in a 'grab' start. I say this for two reasons - first, the back leg must start pushing at the same time as the front leg, but it must stop pushing well before the front leg stops pushing (this is for most swimmers who have legs of approximately the same length.) Second, you need something to push against to push hard. As someone mentioned, their foot slipped on one start. There is no way that the flat or slightly tilted starting-block surface provides as much resistance as the front of the block. The more resistance, the more push you can have. None of this is why I responded to Wayne's post. That will have to wait.

With all due respect to the coaching credentials of the advocates of both grab and track style starts, I think you've lost the point in your extended discussion of physics and physiology. The point is not which start is "better" for all swimmers; the point is how can an individual swimmer improve his/her start. For swimmers with little if any competitive experience (whether age group or masters) it is more important to do one style of start well (& keeping goggles in place) than to learn the theoretically optimal style. On our little youth league team this summer, we practiced starting block starts early and often, beginning with the 2nd workout of the season. I encouraged the kids to try several versions of grab and track start, and use the one that made them feel comfortable. My idea was to get them comfortable with diving off the blocks, and to start working on skills that get them out farther and faster. Now, for more experienced swimmers, they may benefit from trying a different style, and seeing if it gets them out faster. As several participants have pointed-out, you probably need video-tapes and stop-watches to really know which is best. You also probably need to really learn how to do a grab or track start well before you can tell if it is better than your current style. I am impressed by some of the comments folks have made in this thread, and I will look up some of the materials. However, I am by nature suspicious of claims that any particular school of thought is universally optimal for all people under all conditions. Matt