Track start vs. Traditional start?

"We can read the rules until we are blue in the face but is it the starters and refs "opinion" that ultimately determines what's legal? If there is an objection to a dq, the stroke and turn will be asked the three questions: 1. What did you see? 2. What rule did the swimmer break? 3. Where were you when you saw the infraction? So for any infraction the ref should be able to explain which rule was broken and how it was broken. If the ref cannot explain the above then the coach or swimmer should ask that the dq be torn up. You use the word "opinion" as if the ref is making something out of whole cloth. I think a better word would be 'judgement." To get to be a ref, he has probably seen thousands of turns, and hundreds of starts. But, deck officials are human and are fallible. I have seen very experienced deck officials make mistakes in the interpatation of the rules. It happens. If you think that the deck official was incorrect in the interpretation of the rule, bring it up with the next higher official. At a meet, that is the meet referee. If you think that the meet ref is incorrect, write the officials chair (either Masters or USA-Swimming). (This should be an interpretation of the rule, having a swimmer get on the block with both feet on the back part block instead of the having one foot on the front of the block would be an interperatation of the forward start rule). If it is a judgement of fact ie did the swimmer touch with both hands in the butterfly or one hand, the meet ref is the sole judge. I would also like to point out that in Pacific Swimming all officials are judged at every meet. USA-S officials have a test to take every two years about the rules and the interpretation of those rules and you have to pass or you dont work the deck. Also at Pacific Masters and Pacific Swimming meets (and I assume that many other LMSCs), the meet ref has many years of experience-In Pacific Masters, the meet ref with fewest years of experience has 12 years experience of working as a meet official. I have encouraged all the swimmers to read the Technical Rules of Swimming, it is only about four pages long, but it has been my experience that most swimmers have not read the rules. But again, if you have read the rules and think that the official erred, bring it up to the next higher official in almost all cases, someone should be able to explain why a rule was interpreted one way. You are right, at the end of the day, where the rubber meets the road, when all is said and done, it will be the meet ref who in his knowledge of the rules and the facts and circumstances of the case, giving the benefit of the doubt to the swimmer, will make a judgement. michael I remember Krintin Quance. On the transition from the back to the *** in the 400 IM she was toward the back when her feet left the wall. I was not there, but talked to two deck officials who were there. They said it was a good call.

Ho! If Bert is contributing, then I'd better. When I came back to swimming I was employing the 'windmill' start that I had been taught as a kid (much flailing of arms purportedly to catapult one from flat blocks). When you try to employ that technique from modern blocks you cause much hilarity amid falling into the water before the starter has even started to play head games with the swimmers. An age group coach took pity upon me & taught me the track start & lo, I was soon known for my great start, but sad inability to retain correct positioning of goggles so I concentrated solely on sprinting & did not too badly. Years have passed, I left government service & got a real self-employed job (pioneered the stress-reducing rapid weight-gain diet) & found the track start too hard on my body, most especially on my chronic neck problem so I started employing the grab start. Now, I must admit that I first tried this by cautiously entering some distance events Where Nothing Rode On My Start (indeed my mantra upon entering the water was 'slow down, you idiot!')& I rather enjoyed the torpor of a distance start & the mellow marshalling for an event rather than the high-octane, spincter-tightening prelude to an all-out sprint- but lo & behold! my start has been timed as faster off the blocks than track start & my goggles stay roughly in the vicinity of my nose--so in my long-winded & slightly less scientific than Wayne's way, I vote grab. By the way, relay turnovers could be an entirely different question...

Leonard, I wish it were so simple. I have so far avoided the 6,000 word article on this subject, so I will peck away at it piece meal. I have dozens of studies from the Journal of Swimming Science, and many have conducted these same studies using instrumented starting platforms with strain gauges. To sumerize the track start generates less force. The grab start generates more force, but takes slightly longer to develop it. The grab start usually results in deeper entry into the water (by 6-10 inches). One of the drills at Power Start went like this: 1) have someone watch you and record how high you jump by standing with your arms hanging down. Jump up. 2) have someone watch you and record how high you jump by standing with your arms overhead in a streamline position. Jump up. 3) have someone watch you and record how high you jump by standing with your arms hanging down. Jump up and swing your arms at the same time, ending up in the streamline position. You will jump higher using 3. Most grab starters only bring the hands up to shoulder level before diving down into that nice clean single hole entry. Including myself. By using the hands as throw weights, you allow the thighs and feet muscles to get more height out of the Power Start. Same person and same power as before, but more height. Height translates into more distance. More height and distance means slightly more speed entering the water. From my personal experience, the track start was like starting off the pool deck rather than a starting block 20 inches off the pool deck and another 10 inches above the water. The more time in the air allowed time to adjust the body to go into that perfect one hole entry. I have watched Bert Bergen for ten years, he has a great start for him, a track start. He has great reaction time, and always goes through one hole into the water. But I doubt he gets more than 18-24 inches above the starting block, he immediately heads for the water. I have also seen him race some of our young hot shot masters on our team, they use the grab start and on fly and breaststroke always come up ahead of Bert by a yard or more. Just think if Bert used a Power Start and went higher and farther than Marc Rinzler, his 50 *** would be 27.4 and his 50 free down to 20.8. Hope you guys get some help out of this, I am still learning the little things about Power Starts. Wayne

Thanks for the tip. Now all I gotta do is lose about 50 pounds so I can be a little more airworthy.

A thought experiment... The physics of this is straightforward and comes with one qualification. The physics: f=ma (force = mass * acceleration). What you are trying to do is generate the maximum acceleration that you can carry into the water. Since m is constant (except around the holidays, when we all gain a bit), the real issue is what generates the maximum force? It should be easy to instrument starting platforms with strain gauges to measure force and then try to maximize that. The qualification: One must first learn an "optimal" entrance into the water (no belly flops, a nice clean "hole", etc) and then maintain it as one increases force with the two styles. At a certain point one will either cease to be able to increase the force with one style vs the other, or will reach a point where maintaining the "optimal" entrance is not possible with an increase of force. Without further training, that would be the optimal start style, at least for that person... I have neatly sidestepped this issue by swimming mostly open water races and when forced to race in the pool, I start in the pool. Not optimal, but it also makes getting my palty PR's easier. -LBJ

OK, maybe I have better balance than most. I set myself up so it only takes a little finger push to set me off balance. I feel that a start like you described puts my weight too far back and tles my hands up. I have yet to false start (knock on wood), but the hardest part of a start for me is standing back up. I really have only my own experience and physiology to go by. Differences in how to do any one type make generalizations about a style of start hard to make. Of course, a bad 'grab' start is worse than a good 'track' start. Otherwise, I can't agree more how (the most) critical the entry is, and that it can be done well with any type of start. We're discussing the best type of start, not the most comfortable type of start. We can go on and on discussing the correct form of freestyle, and it is never the most comfortable style to the beginning swimmer. The start is so simple that simple physics and physiology can tell us how to do one. I do not think that it is so individual. Especially at the college level and better, where you have good athletes training for a significant portion of their day. That may or may not make my points relevent to any readers of this thread.

I am resurrecting this old thread because of questions I have about the track start.I have been an advocate of the grab start,but with the fin blocks at the Olympic Trials pool the track start is clearly faster.As I was practicing the track start there(thanks for having start lanes always open) I noticed the track start was easier on my back(I have had chronic back problems.)When I got back to my home pool I was working on the start and one of the coaches I know suggested that I get my back leg really straight to raise my hips and rear up for better leverage.Aside from being uncomfortable this did not seem to give me better leverage. From what I could see on videos this did not seem to be what the elites were doing,however I could not find any really good instructional videos on line for the track start.Any suggestions for tips on teaching an old dog new tricks?

I am resurrecting this old thread because of questions I have about the track start.I have been an advocate of the grab start,but with the fin blocks at the Olympic Trials pool the track start is clearly faster.As I was practicing the track start there(thanks for having start lanes always open) I noticed the track start was easier on my back(I have had chronic back problems.)When I got back to my home pool I was working on the start and one of the coaches I know suggested that I get my back leg really straight to raise my hips and rear up for better leverage.Aside from being uncomfortable this did not seem to give me better leverage. From what I could see on videos this did not seem to be what the elites were doing,however I could not find any really good instructional videos on line for the track start.Any suggestions for tips on teaching an old dog new tricks? Taking your mark with your back leg straight is madness. If your back leg is straight then you can't flex the big muscles in that leg to propel yourself off the block. That would put the burden on your front leg, resulting in a weaker start. My advice is not to lean back when you take your mark. Don't lean forward either; just be neutrally balanced. You will get off the blocks faster, though some guys who lean back and do slingshot/trebuchet starts for greater power may catch up on the dive. I don't feel comfortable with those kind of starts; I do track starts with reaction times consistently under 0.70 so I just do that and don't worry too much about it.

Taking your mark with your back leg straight is madness. If your back leg is straight then you can't flex the big muscles in that leg to propel yourself off the block. That would put the burden on your front leg, resulting in a weaker start. My advice is not to lean back when you take your mark. Don't lean forward either; just be neutrally balanced. You will get off the blocks faster, though some guys who lean back and do slingshot/trebuchet starts for greater power may catch up on the dive. I don't feel comfortable with those kind of starts; I do track starts with reaction times consistently under 0.70 so I just do that and don't worry too much about it. On the same token as Allen, I tried a track start with the back fin when it was available to me at a meet. I was definitely faster off the blocks than my usual flat start, which is usually around 0.85. But those expensive blocks are not widely circulated. My major complaints for track starts are with regard to all the various block dimensions and textures. My mind is at ease doing flat starts and most of my races are not determined by one or two tenths anyways.

I understand the usual suggestion is for the ball of the foot to be on the fin and the back leg to be at 90 degrees.