This is somewhat related to another post I just started (Top Ten conerns). I noticed in the top ten list a number of swimmers (generally very fast swimmers) who swam their first nationals (or any other masters meet) in 5 years due to being in a new age group. I state this by looking at the past few years top ten lists and not seeing their names. Is this a good thing for masters swimming? Swimmers whose only affiliation with masters swimming is showing up to one meet every 5 years to break a record. These records should be owned by people that are true masters swimmers.
What is a true masters swimmers?- Perhaps doing a few meets a year might work. When I swam on an age group team as a child, I know in order to qualify for our championship meet, we had to swim at least 3 regular meets. Perhaps a rule like that for Nationals could begin to fix this problem-
If not, many of our national records will be held by "ringers"
Former Member
Originally posted by Tom Bubel
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Obviously all the feedback is against my thoughts. I certainly was not intending on getting anyone upset, I just thought there were many people out there with my ideas. I guess I was wrong.
I don't condone some tones in this thread.
I respect your thoughts by carefully reading and re-reading the starting post, which contains an idea and an invitation for people to discuss.
I expressed one opinion, my starting opinion, and in a debate I can grow.
Ion,
I totally agree with you for exactly the 2 reasons you give (a & b). As Paul Smith has pointed out, with cuts in college swimming programs etc, our various organisations need to be working together, in-synch and even closer.
Donna Torres & a whole lot of others should have Masters records whether they know it or not.
The fact that FINA Masters records (but not the USMS records as I understand it?) have to be set at Masters meets reeks of exclusivity and makes no sense in terms of 'record' whatsoever.
Look forward to toasting this one over a beer with you in Cleveland when we solve the world's problems.
Ian.
BTW: I am obviously missing something really important - Maria D is going to have to introduce me to a Ho-Ho. It seems I have been deprived.
Originally posted by aquageek
So what if they show up every few years. They aren't eating Ho-Hos in between.
What's this????? We aren't allowed to eat Ho-Hos any more?
Speaking on behalf of many other master swimmers who are probably in the same boat...having a family, running a business, and taking care of general upkeep around the house puts a huge monopoly on one's time.
When that one meet of the year rolls around, I'ld like to think that the opportunity to give a best effort shouldn't be missed. And if the result turns out to be one for the record books,...so be it.
I think the bottom line about masters swimming is really the perpetuation of one's youth, and finding time to "play" with like minded people. Even if the play involves self inflicted, oxygen deprived, head pounding torture. It's all good.:D
Originally posted by Ion Beza
I think that swimmers who participate regularly, personify the spirit best.
So a record can only be broken by a swimmer who swims a fast time(not necessarily the fastest time) who participates regularly and personifies the spirit of masters swimming.
Now we're getting somewhere. Anyone want to take a shot at defining participates, regularly, and spirit?
Originally posted by Ian Smith
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The fact that FINA Masters records (but not the USMS records as I understand it?) have to be set at Masters meets reeks of exclusivity and makes no sense in terms of 'record' whatsoever.
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That's correct:
FINA Masters records do not recognize 56.42 in 100 meter fly, Long Course by US Master Swimmer, Paul Carter, age 45, because it was swam in a non Masters meet, exactly like Popov age 30, and others of that caliber, swim fast in non Masters meets;
USMS recognizes Paul Carter's record, because he is registered in USMS -a bureacratic formality Popov, and others of that caliber, can do-.
The result is: the Masters world record in 100 meter fly Long Course for men ages 44 to 49, is slower than the USMS record.
FINA has some good points, and some other points.
To get back to Tom idea of rewarding the true participants of Masters Swimming, I recognize the participation of true participants, I have an opinion about rewarding, and my opinion is debatable.
ya'll got me to harking back to a conversation I overheard a few years back at a senior olympics games. It was 'tween a cupla guys who'd been d.q.'ed in the 50 ***. They were complain'n that they were competing against "professionals". . One was a bicyclist and the other a track star. It was about the time Democratic presidential nomination candidate Paul Tsongas, a butterflyer, if you don't remember, was quoted as saying "...anyone can swim breaststroke."
It felt kinda good to be aware of the fact that little ol' me, cane an' all, was being envied, even resented, as being a "professional".
I doubt if I ever will break a national record (except the 200 fly at age 85!). but I still think the record should be held by the fastest swimmer, period!
Bill W. Rodgers
I don't think the top swimmers are the only ones that swim only1 or 2 meets a year. In many states in both long course and short course there's only a handful of meets. Arizona only had two long course meets this past summer. The next close ones were California and from Tucson, Irvine California is a good 7 to 8 hours in a car. Also, many of the SPMA swimmers and some of the Arizona swimmers are not entered in Nationals because the Irvine Meet which was the SouthWest Championship meet was held this past weekend. Some of these people could have placed in the top ten at nationals but since its in Cleveland Ohio and a week after the Irvine meet they decide not to attend nationals.
Originally posted by NCSwimmer
So a record can only be broken by a swimmer who swims a fast time(not necessarily the fastest time) who participates regularly and personifies the spirit of masters swimming.
Now we're getting somewhere. Anyone want to take a shot at defining participates, regularly, and spirit?
You didn't and you don't get a dispute from me regarding winning based on fastest times, because that's the definition of a speed sport.
The spirit of participation I am mentioning -when answering the question you asked above-, promotes the activity, from occasional participant, to regular participant.
