And the ESPY goes to....

I just wanted to add one thing, directed mainly to Ion... So is swimming a sport just because of the fitness of those that do it? I see unfit swimmers and golfers alike. Both take years to excel, hours and hours to become good at them, and a true love for the sport. I think anything that causes people to get off the couch, dedicate themselves wholeheartedly, push themselves beyond their limits to acheive a goal - physically - that is a sport.

I was very worried Mo Vaughn would be used to foil my argument and, sure enough, he was mentioned. Oh well, I think he may have been a DH when in the American League and not a position player. Nonetheless, that is my sorry attempt to exclude him. I give up on Ion. I won't change his mind. Swimming is the only sport there is according to him. All others are fat, lazy people of marginally developed technical ability. To that I answer, I hope he never sees my beer belly yet odd ability to swim quite fast. That may confuse him to great lengths. Now, off to a baseball game to enjoy the thundering herds in the infield and outfield. If I get lucky the players may stop grazing on the grass and perform some sporting feat. Bert Bergen - you got me, I'll admit it. Mo Vaughn was the jab but Cecil Fielder was the knockout punch!

I give a generic answer, since I fell behind in individual replies about what is sport, with examples of swimming, baseball and golf. My generic answer should address points made by aquageek, though. Every day, newspaper coverage gives me ammunition for what I claim, namely that golf is a game, baseball is a marginal sport and swimming is a sport. TV is even a non-presence in my spare time, after watching TV a few times and decided that it has almost nothing to say, unless is an event I am chasing in advance, like the 2000 Olympics. I take today's newspaper, The San Diego Union Tribune. In page D6, I see an article about one player, and it goes on for three full pages of numerous other such examples. A picture shows an overweight man in his late 20s or early 30s, corresponding to the image I saw a few times on TV of grandpas-like players with overflowing waistlines patheteically trying to run. The article says that he played for a World Series championship team, and that he has a "...market value - perhaps $10 million annually or more.". Because it is reported pitchers and hitters take steroids for power, I can grant them some weightlifting power, pitching and hitting techniques, but on body fat proof they are aerobically disabled, and swimming fast is all aerobic fitness. Today's The San Diego Union Tribune doesn't have golf in it, but yesterday it had, and I didn't keep it since I didn't know about this discussion yet. However, almost every day I see in the paper, top golf players grossly unfit physically. Golf is almost entirely a technical game, with walking being its only physical requirement, and that kind of walking is no better than me going to the grocery store. A mocking cartoon once in the paper by Willey, did show two golfers, physically unfit, but taking pride in the 'sportsy' wheels of their carts. In the San Diego Union Tribune of March 4, 2002, I read: the "...aerobic capacity, as measured by maximal oxygen uptake tests..." is greatest among all sports in descending order in "...cross-country skiers, swimmers and marathoners.". The books 'Four Champions, One Gold Medal' by Chuck Warner and 'Gold in the Water' by P. H. Mullen, describe respectively the cardiovascular of Bobby Hackett and Thomas Wilkins: Bobby Hackett swam 15:03.xx in 1500 meters freestyle at age 16 in 1976 Montreal Olympics, for a silver medal, a time worth 4th. place in 1996 Atlanta Olympics whith competitors much older and further developed than the age of 16; Tom Wilkens won bronze in 200 meter I.M. in the 2000 Sydney Olympics; the resting heart rate is 36 beats per minute, the heart rate in full swimming effort is over 200 beats per minute and maintained there for more than five minutes, the heart rate descends from over 200 beats per minute to less than 100 beats per minute in one minute rest. Such trained heart rate effort by swimmers, similarly forced onto top notch golfers, top notch baseball players and couch potatoes, is going to give golfers, baseball players and couch potatoes a heart attack. Getting lower than the Olympic swimmers, but still staying in the league of succesfull swimmers, this link: www.usswim.org/swimkids/template.pl?opt=bios provides insight into the fitness of US Swimming qualifiers, each having developed the physique to be a player in the sport of swimming, and each being athletically and aerobically fit: look in it for the men's height to weight ratio, that swimming has at this level. It is this that mainstream US media is uneducated about, and like I wrote yesterday, it reports wrongly that: "Thorpe set a new record in 200 free in 45 seconds.", has entertainment like golf and baseball mixed in the sports pages, and doesn't pay recognition to the most athletically fit people.

Ion, you make some interesting, but flawed comments. Are athletes overpaid or are they just living in America where the free market drives pay? Maybe it's called supply and demand. I guess you would turn down gobs of money if someone offered it to you for swimming. After all, that would make you overpaid. I hear they had/have neat little rules in East Germany, China, Cuba and the former USSR that made sure athletes couldn't make any money. Plus, as an added bonus in those reputable countries, you got to take steroids for free and not even know it. So, I guess I will reluctantly take our system over the alternatives out there. Next, why don't you tell Bo Jackson, Andruw Jones, Alex Rodriquez or Mike Piazza that all they do is technique, not sports. Better yet, watch a replay of Torii Hunter's catch at the All Star game the other night. There was no sports ability in that? That's just his technique of being able jump incredibly high and time a catch over a wall preventing a homerun, huh? I would challenge you to name one single baseball position player that is out of shape. I've seen a pitcher or two that could shed some pounds but never a position player. And, other than Craig Stadler and John Daly, name another top 50 golfer who is overweight. Stadler and Daly aren't top 50, by the way. This swimming is better than all other sports attitude is silly. Anyone who participates in an activity that improves their phsycial conditioning, not to mention the positive mental aspects, shouldn't be criticized or debased because you think what they do isn't as good as swimming.

Ion: I am completely convinced you watch no sports. How in the great blue waters of my local YMCA can you honestly state the media needs more professional knowledge of sports? I can't even think of the last sportscast I watched where one of the commentators or analysts wasn't a noted athlete or coach from that particular sport, including our beloved swimming. You can rant all you want about various facets of the media but there is no way you can claim there is a lack of professional knowledge of sports in the media. Heck, even in that crazy wood choppin' festival they have on ESPN every summer there are former champs doing the commentary. Curling could be the exception as no one really seems to understand that sport, even those who chase that big puck around with the funky broom. I've probably offended any Canadiens now, sorry.

For Aquageek- Sorry, but go look at Mo Vaughn (retired Cecil Fielder also) and tell me he is a finely tuned athlete...other points well taken though. There is athletic talent and skill in MLB (Hunter was a prime example). It's about the entertainment dollar and millions attend baseball games each year; thousands per game: sponsors pay where the fans are; owners pay where the revenue is. It is a state of this union.

I have my own personal rule of thumb for evaluating what I consider to be sports. I don't believe there is are any discrete categories, but rather a sliding scale continuum from "sport" to "hobby" (or psychatric disorder, depending on your point of view). To figure out where something falls on the sports scale, calculate a subjective kind of ratio. On the top you put cardio-vascular fitness and overall athleticism required to play the game. Baseball and football still score pretty high in this regard because even though they do not require the same kind of endurance that a marathon or 400 IM requires, the kind of raw ahtletic ability to make a catch like Torii Hunter's, or run a 4.3 40, leap 3 feet into the air and then catch a football throw 50 yards on a rope with a denfensive back draped all over you takes phenomenal athletic ability. On the bottom side of the ratio put the amount of money you have to spend on gear to be able to play the game. Track and field scores very high because gear is minimal, and athletic ability is high. Bass fishing would be at the other end of the scale. As one of my favorite radio loudmouths, Jim Rome, would say, golf is a sport...barely. Swimming is very high, or pretty high, depending on whether you amortize the cost of running the pool/paying the open water lifeguards. Please note that I did not say any activity is more valid or worthwhile than another. It's just my own rule of thumb for evaluating "sport" vs. ... psychiatric disorder. Just my opinion. I could be, and frequently am, completely wrong. (Just ask my wife.) Matt

quote Golf's and baseball's monopoly is at the expense of swimming, track and field, skiing, which are sports, not games. /quote Golf and baseball don't do anythign at the expense of swimming. There is no national constant pot of money for tv time and sports participation. People pay to play and watch both baseball and golf. Nothing precludes them from doing the same for swimming. Television networks and radio in turn respond to what people seem to spend their money on.

Originally posted by Bert Bergen ... It's about the entertainment dollar and millions attend baseball games each year; thousands per game: sponsors pay where the fans are; owners pay where the revenue is. It is a state of this union. 'Fans' follow the media footsteps like sheep. In the media, including ESPN discussed here, a more professional knowledge about sports is overdue.

I grew up watching the Lakers and the Dodgers and Angels as a kid in southern california. The pro game sports always get more attention. But in the late 1960's and 1970's, swimming was what people put their kids into besides softball or little baseball or track and field. Now there is a sport call soccer which has drawed a lot of the boys and girls from southern california into that sport. I predict that within 10 years soccer which is a sport done more by people under 25 years old will take a bite out of baseball and football and basketball and the espy awards will award soccer players more. Don't knock golf and tennis they along with figure skating are sports where women can make as much as men or more. As for swimming it is more expensive than track and field but a lot more cheaper than figure skating where parents go into debt to pay their kids training. So probably track and field does draw people more from different income levels than does swimming and definately more so than figure skating. So it is based more upon natural ability than the two other sports.