A quick question for all of you:
Our state meet is taking place this weekend. The meet entries were cut off last Sunday at 6p.m. The psych sheet was available mid-Monday. About 24 hours later, one of our swimmers found a way to get herself into the meet, despite there being a very strict stipulation regarding no late entries.
She "conveniently" put herself in races where she would place first place without a doubt. In two of the races, she actually knocked her fellow teammates down from first place to second.
Keep in mind that this is not the first time this person has done this, and it should be noted that she repeatedly stated her goal to get "high point" at the meet. According to numerous conversations, she knew she had "missed" the deadline, but failed to seek entry until AFTER the psych sheet came out.
When our coach was notified of this, his reaction was basically, "It's just your time that counts, so I wouldn't worry about points." However, this obviously affects not only the swimmers on her team who were screwed, but other swimmers and other teams who may also be trying to get high point status.
Am I wrong in thinking that this is deceptive at best, and a very clever and manipulative use of a loophole that allows a swimmer to have a very unfair advantage? Is this what USMS has become - winning at any cost? Has anyone else experienced this kind of thing?
A quick question for all of you:
Our state meet is taking place this weekend. The meet entries were cut off last Sunday at 6p.m. The psych sheet was available mid-Monday. About 24 hours later, one of our swimmers found a way to get herself into the meet, despite there being a very strict stipulation regarding no late entries.
She "conveniently" put herself in races where she would place first place without a doubt. In two of the races, she actually knocked her fellow teammates down from first place to second.
Keep in mind that this is not the first time this person has done this, and it should be noted that she repeatedly stated her goal to get "high point" at the meet. According to numerous conversations, she knew she had "missed" the deadline, but failed to seek entry until AFTER the psych sheet came out.
When our coach was notified of this, his reaction was basically, "It's just your time that counts, so I wouldn't worry about points." However, this obviously affects not only the swimmers on her team who were screwed, but other swimmers and other teams who may also be trying to get high point status.
Am I wrong in thinking that this is deceptive at best, and a very clever and manipulative use of a loophole that allows a swimmer to have a very unfair advantage? Is this what USMS has become - winning at any cost? Has anyone else experienced this kind of thing?
I lost a State Meet while coaching because someone did something similar (was scratched during the scratch down period, then re-entered in the event after final psyche sheet was released). In my case, it was due to someone who knew nothing about swimming, but was in charge of AAA (the high school sports governing body in Arkansas), deciding what was in the best interest of the SWIMMER (the swimmer didn't make this mistake, the coach(es) did). While on the one hand I can respect that, on the other, the person had no idea that doing this would cause a ripple effect, and my team went on to lose by 1.5 points (the swimmer in question won his event).
I think what it comes down to is who is in charge and how well they want to enforce their rules. I am one of those people where if the rules say "You cannot do X," then I won't do X, and expect everyone else participating not be allowed to do X either. I also believe if I am one of the people enforcing said rules, that NO ONE should be allowed to do X. No exceptions (especially when we talk specifically about something like meet entries).
It sounds like whoever was in charge of your meet had a heart, or a bribe, or just doesn't care that much one way or the other, and let this swimmer enter past the deadline. I personally don't believe in making "grey areas" where if you enter past the deadline but before the psyche sheet you can still get in. Meet deadlines are just that: deadlines. I used to shut teams out of meets for not meeting the entry deadline. It wasn't like the meet was only posted a day before. When this stuff is up and online for weeks and sometimes months, there really is no excuse. But certainly trying to enter a meet AFTER a psyche sheet is posted is just not right.
On the other hand, maybe this swimmer had some personal family issue or medical issue that caused them to accidentally miss the deadline...then again, your explanation seems to shoot that possibility down!
I don't really swim in meets...so I'm not really familiar with the registration/entry/seeding procedures. However...IMO...the person that allowed her to enter after the deadline should be held accountable. Have the meet directors explain why she was allowed to enter after the deadline.
Dan
I don't really swim in meets...so I'm not really familiar with the registration/entry/seeding procedures. However...IMO...the person that allowed her to enter after the deadline should be held accountable. Have the meet directors explain why she was allowed to enter after the deadline.
Dan
This too. I would ask for a full explanation. And don't settle for "because I said so." I always hated hearing that. Maybe it's the fact that I look really young (like a sophomore in high school...when i shave my beard), but that was the final answer I got in my issue, and the answer I got often times when questioning things like this. "Because I said so," is what I tell my daughter when she asks why she can't stay up and play for another 30 minutes past her bedtime. It's not an acceptable reason here. Hate being treated like a kid when asking a serious question!
Was this swimmer's team hosting the meet? If so, I have kind of seen something like this, but not as egregious. Local large team hosting a meet does as many teams do, puts out two psych sheets. An early one, and a late one. I can't recall the reasons for this meet, as there is no time standard to be met. Perhaps entries are due at 2 weeks, but may be modified up until 1 week. At any rate, one time after the psych sheet came out, for the second psych sheet, several of their swimmers had significantly improved times (that were "unofficial") which coincidentally bumped them up a couple of heats, and bumped down some local swimmers on other teams*. Host team kind of has that prerogative, and after a large shake up, that kind of thing has not happened, again. But it torqued off some parents of other teams, and other people just dismissed it.
* It may have been timed finals events such as 400IM or distance frees. Don't recall. Would not have been prelims/finals as top 3 heats are circle seeded.
But if the entry deadline passed and this swimmer had not swum any times that would change his/her qualifications, then they should not be allowed to enter, IMHO. The LSC should have control of that, but as I said, often the host team gets to make the rules.
I agree with Calvin :angel: 100% (in both of his posts)!
Now, if I were the swimmer who got screwed by this type of thing, I would be :bitching: :censor:.
Would you mind posting where this meet was?
It should NEVER have posted psych sheets and then still allow entries!
A HARD deadline must be followed and then entries can be posted!!
This was the Arizona state meet in Phoenix, AZ. As we got closer to the meet, it appeared that at least another swimmer was able to enter after the psych sheets were posted.
I appreciate all of the comments above, and no, there were no unusual reasons for the person to be allowed into the meet after the deadline. She expressed her desire to achieve high point, even after telling someone that she missed the deadline. Getting high point when you are able to pick events based on who is already in them is a pretty easy thing to do, at least in a meet that isn't terribly large (190 or so swimmers).
I spoke with the state chair and although she was helpful, she stated that because there were no particular rules relating to this (other than Standards of Conduct, which states that all swimmers, "shall conduct themselves with integrity and in a sporting manner."). I have been assured that this will not happen again, though how this helps me or the other swimmers in this particular meet is beyond me.
As a result of her participation in the meet, and lack of anyone even addressing the issue with the swimmer, I pulled out. No big deal really, but if she's going to get her high point award, she's not going to do so on my back. :-)
This was the Arizona state meet in Phoenix, AZ. As we got closer to the meet, it appeared that at least another swimmer was able to enter after the psych sheets were posted.
The AZ state meet was in Tucson this weekend, not Phoenix. I've been seeing a few of my Facebook friends' posts about it. I'm also on an email list for AZ meet volunteers, and I received several emails in advance of the meet asking for volunteers.
It was held at the U of A pool, which recently underwent a massive renovation....and sounds fantastic!
I spoke with the state chair and although she was helpful, she stated that because there were no particular rules relating to this (other than Standards of Conduct, which states that all swimmers, "shall conduct themselves with integrity and in a sporting manner.").
Her conduct was unsportsmanlike, and she should not have been allowed to compete.
I also believe that sandbagging and the use of performance enhancing drugs are unsportsmanlike, but I am in the minority.
