A quick question for all of you:
Our state meet is taking place this weekend. The meet entries were cut off last Sunday at 6p.m. The psych sheet was available mid-Monday. About 24 hours later, one of our swimmers found a way to get herself into the meet, despite there being a very strict stipulation regarding no late entries.
She "conveniently" put herself in races where she would place first place without a doubt. In two of the races, she actually knocked her fellow teammates down from first place to second.
Keep in mind that this is not the first time this person has done this, and it should be noted that she repeatedly stated her goal to get "high point" at the meet. According to numerous conversations, she knew she had "missed" the deadline, but failed to seek entry until AFTER the psych sheet came out.
When our coach was notified of this, his reaction was basically, "It's just your time that counts, so I wouldn't worry about points." However, this obviously affects not only the swimmers on her team who were screwed, but other swimmers and other teams who may also be trying to get high point status.
Am I wrong in thinking that this is deceptive at best, and a very clever and manipulative use of a loophole that allows a swimmer to have a very unfair advantage? Is this what USMS has become - winning at any cost? Has anyone else experienced this kind of thing?
Yes, those are the same locker rooms. Pretty much the same as they've been for the entire 12 or so years that I have been attending meets there. My coach told me that it was up ME to bring it up to the meet director (the same Jim Stites). I also brought it up to the state chair who was horrified and dumbfounded that anyone would even want to do what the swimmer did. My coach's exact words were, "Well, what did you want me to do about it?"
I don't think anyone would have a problem extending a deadline (although I would ask WHY have a deadline if you aren't going to honor it?). My first coach used to always refer to flight departure times when someone was late - the time is the time and they aren't going to turn that plane around because you were a minute late! Anyway, the issue really is that the intention was there to miss the deadline, wait for the psych sheet, and then enter accordingly. It's just slimy.
With regards to the coach, I just hate people who won't take a stand, siding with liars/cheaters rather than what is right in some kind of misguided effort to keep the peace. In the long run, you're only going to display your lack of backbone and lose the respect of those around you. What could have been rectified by simply talking to the swimmer and ensuring her points weren't allowed has now turned into an enormous team-wide drama lasting a week and probably longer.
I'm going to play devil's advocate. I think blaming the swimmer is misguided. This person obviously knew what they could do, and they took advantage of it to accomplish their goals. I'm not excusing it, by any means. But IMHO, all of the invective should be directed at the host for not enforcing the rules, thereby hurting those who follow the rules to a T.
That said.......seems to me that pulling out of the meet is a bit like cutting off one's nose to spite their face. Do most masters swimmers compete just for the awards? Granted, I've not done a meet, yet, but I know that my kids would rather go to a much more competitive meet and swim against some great swimmers than go to a smaller meet and (one of them) be a lock for hte high point.
I had a similar thing happen to me recently. A swimmer in my age group who wasn't on the published psyche sheets magically appeared on the heat sheets a couple of days later. I wondered about it, but didn't question it, in part because his seed times were significantly faster than mine. I figured it would be poor form for me to complain about someone I had little chance of actually beating in he pool.
The thing I see more often are swimmer who enter the maximum number of events and then cherry pick which ones to scratch after the heat sheets are posted in order to optimize their results.
Another thing I see frequently are swimmers who sandbag their entry seed times so they can get seeded in earlier heats to get more rest time between races.
Yes, sorry, I meant Tucson. The pool is fine (I've competed there many times) but unfortunately they didn't spend any cash on the locker rooms!
That seems like a pretty common thing - There's 3 pools in my area built in the last 5 or so years that have locker rooms that just don't match the size of the pools. I feel like sometimes the administrators approving funding for these pool projects don't understand correct design.
That seems like a pretty common thing - There's 3 pools in my area built in the last 5 or so years that have locker rooms that just don't match the size of the pools. I feel like sometimes the administrators approving funding for these pool projects don't understand correct design.
Like going into a men's restroom and there is 1 urinal and 1 stall...You advertised this place as a pool you want to host major events at. Why on earth would you build a bathroom off the deck that can only service 2 people at a time?
Yes, sorry, I meant Tucson. The pool is fine (I've competed there many times) but unfortunately they didn't spend any cash on the locker rooms!
My very first masters team was at the U of A with Jim Stites as the coach. Too bad that they didn't do anything to the locker rooms...from what I remember, the men's was a bit lacking (I did a triathlon in the pool there and I remember huge lines waiting for the 1 or 2 stalls).
What did your coach say when you brought this up to them?
I lived in AZ for 20 years and swam with masters teams much of that time. While they normally initially posted hard deadlines for meet entries, they'd often extend them due to lack of entries. It was quite common for a meet that began on a Friday to have meet entries go through Wednesday, or sometimes even the day before. There are so few people who register and show up at meets.
I'm going to play devil's advocate. I think blaming the swimmer is misguided. This person obviously knew what they could do, and they took advantage of it to accomplish their goals. I'm not excusing it, by any means. But IMHO, all of the invective should be directed at the host for not enforcing the rules, thereby hurting those who follow the rules to a T.
That said.......seems to me that pulling out of the meet is a bit like cutting off one's nose to spite their face. Do most masters swimmers compete just for the awards? Granted, I've not done a meet, yet, but I know that my kids would rather go to a much more competitive meet and swim against some great swimmers than go to a smaller meet and (one of them) be a lock for hte high point.
Most Masters swimmers I know compete just to do their best, but I also know a few who are motivated by awards. I've heard folks complain that such-and-such meet doesn't award ribbons or medals or high point awards, etc. To each their own, I suppose.
I know that my individual results are going to depend on who shows up for a meet. There have been meets where I swam a best time in an event and placed sixth, and others when I swam crappy and won my age group because nobody else showed up.
Personally, my motivation in swimming is to be in the top 100 in my age group for the events I swim. But then again, that's a lot tougher to do in the 50 free than the 100 fly...
I agree completely with both of your points, though it should be said that this swimmer has done this kind of thing before and has obviously gotten away with it. She even found a way to skew an open water swim that I was in, but that's another story!
I only entered the meet because I am one of the coaches on the team and would have to be at the meet all weekend. I figured I'd register for the 1650 as a way to get an easy swim in since I would not be able to swim otherwise. My entry time reflected my rather cavalier attitude to the race. I actually pulled out of the meet because I would have been the coach on deck for the team, and therefore for the cheating swimmer. The thought of sitting with her under a tent for 3 days was not something I was willing to do.
My other justification was that if she was gonna brag at practice about how she won the 1650, when people asked her how many other swimmers there were, she would have to answer "none". LOL
I'm originally from Northern California where the competition is astoundingly more robust than Arizona. I can regularly win the 1650 in almost any meet in AZ, but I would come in 3rd, 4th, or well below that in CA. In other words, placing is meaningless. I'm proud of the fact that I can swim faster than I did 10-15 years ago - I don't need a ribbon to make a race worthwhile. I think most Masters are about dropping time, but there are always those who just want the trophy, I guess.
