At the past 4 Masters meets I officiated (including 2 Nationals), I have observed slower butterfliers completely submerged at some point in the stroke cycle (after surfacing before the 15 mtr mark). Although the swimmer is not attempting to submerge for the purpose of streamline dolphin kicking, their momentum coupled with slow turn-over takes them completely underwater for short periods of time.
The video link - http://vimeo.com/248356962 - shows me swimming slow fly. For brief moments I am completely submerged with no forward propulsion - just resting before the next stroke.
An overly strict, by-the-rules official would be within the rules to DQ a swimmer doing butterfly like the video. It is called "resubmerging after the 15 mtr mark".
This is one of those cases where Masters might need an interpretation of the rule - specific for masters swimmers - that allows for submerging during a stroke cycle provided the swimmer does not perform more than "x" dolphin kicks while submerged.
vimeo.com/248356962
I have been having trouble getting the link to display in this thread, so maybe if you cut and paste the line above, it will work.
Jackback - I am a certified Stroke/Turn for both USA Swimming and USMS (highschool/college as well). what you describe doing is legal. You just have to be sure NOT to scull with your hands while taking a breath.
Freestyler - it has not been an issue, but no one is looking at it either. I suppose we could take the "wait until it is broken" approach, but doing that will mean someone has to be DQ'd for something they should not be DQ'd for.
The "resubmerge" wording was put in to prevent swimmers from surfacing before the 15 mtr mark and then re-submerging so they could streamline dolphin kick. Simply going slow without intending to submerge should not, in my mind, be reason fro DQ.
Changing the Rule means FINA has to change it - that will not happen. Instead, I would like to see USMS Rules develop an interpretation before someone is DQ'd. I suppose I could DQ someone at the next nationals so it has to be dealt with, but that is the wrong approach - imho.
Paul Windrath
vimeo.com/248356962
I have been having trouble getting the link to display in this thread, so maybe if you cut and paste the line above, it will work.
Jackback - I am a certified Stroke/Turn for both USA Swimming and USMS (highschool/college as well). what you describe doing is legal. You just have to be sure NOT to scull with your hands while taking a breath.
Freestyler - it has not been an issue, but no one is looking at it either. I suppose we could take the "wait until it is broken" approach, but doing that will mean someone has to be DQ'd for something they should not be DQ'd for.
The "resubmerge" wording was put in to prevent swimmers from surfacing before the 15 mtr mark and then re-submerging so they could streamline dolphin kick. Simply going slow without intending to submerge should not, in my mind, be reason fro DQ.
Changing the Rule means FINA has to change it - that will not happen. Instead, I would like to see USMS Rules develop an interpretation before someone is DQ'd. I suppose I could DQ someone at the next nationals so it has to be dealt with, but that is the wrong approach - imho.
Paul Windrath
