Olympian Masters ?

I notice that Dashelle Stein and Carter Schillig, two other alternates Donna refered to are not on the list of Olympians either. Can't find any info on them anywhere in a quick search. I couldn't find those names in the 1968 Olympic Trials results (prelims or finals, men or women). The results are fun to look at, though. In 1968 they apparently held the men's and women's trials separately. The women's trials are listed at "Los Angeles Swim Stadium, Calif.", August 24-28, 1968. The men's trials are listed at "Long Beach, Calif.", August 30 - September 3, 1968. It looks like each event had between 5 and 7 preliminary heats, and one heat of finals. Electronic timing apparently was used because a few times have the notation "Human Time" next to them. There are a few familiar names among the competitors: Mark Spitz, Gary Hall, Ross Wales, Don Schollander, James Counsilman. There is also a Douglas Windes from club SCSC. I wonder whether he was related to Rick Windes. Anna Lea

I suggest you contact the USA Swimming national office in Colorado Springs for this information. The current Olympic team selection process is on their website. And previous selections processes should be available by request from USA Swimming. Here's a link to the document, "United States Olympic Committee Athlete Selection Procedure for the 2008 Olympic Games": www.usaswimming.org/.../08 SOG SWI ATH (Pool) Final signed.pdf I checked the Trials qualifying times on Page 17. I have until June 27, 2008, to make them... :rofl: Anna Lea

But, I'm happy you at least quoted someone correctly in this thread (me in this case). Geek, Sometimes it's really better not to say something than to say something snarky. Just my :2cents: Paul

I stand by my statements regarding Gail. OK.

I would be interested in knowing who or how the results of the 1968 Olympic Trials were compiled. I notice that a number of heats are missing 1-3 swimmers, assuming each heat had 8 swimmers. Furthermore, not all of the "final" results list 8 swimmers, example the women's 200M Backstroke lists only 7 swimmers. I am wondering of the accuracy? Don't yell at me, I'm just pointing it at. I only like to deal with confrontation and conflicts at work and this is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. :fish2:

I hope everyone has fun at the swim meet today.

I couldn't find those names in the 1968 Olympic Trials results (prelims or finals, men or women)...The results are fun to look at, though. There are a few familiar names among the competitors... Another familiar name in the results is Jane Swagerty, who made the 1968 US Olympic Team in...you guessed it...the 100 meter backstroke! :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: She is now known to Masters swimmers as Jane Swagerty-Hill, Masters world record holder in the women's 50-54 50 meter backstroke (both short course meters and long course), and USMS record holder in the women's 50-54 50 yard back. :wave:

I would be interested in knowing who or how the results of the 1968 Olympic Trials were compiled. I notice that a number of heats are missing 1-3 swimmers, assuming each heat had 8 swimmers. Furthermore, not all of the "final" results list 8 swimmers, example the women's 200M Backstroke lists only 7 swimmers. Yes, I noticed that too. In the 200M backstroke, the 8th swimmer should have been Kendis Moore. Her qualifying time (from Heat 3) was 2:27.41, which was the second-fastest time in the preliminary heats. I also noticed, though, that there are no DQs in the results at all. It makes me wonder if maybe they just didn't list DQs in the final results. Maybe she swam the finals and got DQ'd. Or maybe she just didn't swim the finals at all. Kendis Moore did make the team in the 100 backstroke and (according to the USOC site mentioned earlier) finished 4th overall. Another thought - back then they didn't have the luxury of using Meet Manager software like we do today. They most likely had to pre-seed the entire meet, type up the heat sheets on a (*younger swimmers probably won't understand this word*) TYPEWRITER, then run off copies on a (*younger swimmers definitely won't understand this word*) MIMEOGRAPH machine. So, if a swimmer didn't show up, they didn't have any way to re-seed the heats; they most likely would have just left empty lanes in those heats. If you look at the Women's 400IM results, you'll see that none of the prelim heats show eight swimmers: Heat 1: 6 Heat 2: 5 Heat 3: 7 Heat 4: 6 Heat 5: 6 Finals: 8 That's a total of 10 empty lanes over 5 prelim heats. In today's world I'd hit "re-seed event" in Meet Manager and condense those 5 heats into 4 heats. Anna Lea

Me too!!! I stand by my statements: 1 – Gail (Peters) Roper is an Olympian 2 – Gail is an volunteer historian working for the benefit of US Masters Swimming 3 – Gail NEVER called Donna or anyone else a liar on the USMS discussion Forum I agree. And hopefully those who are being cruel to Gail can get beyond this and possibly even help her by finding and providing information from USA Swimming, FINA, USOC, USOA, or IOC; which can be used to support Donna. And maybe, just maybe this thread can return to its original intent. I agree with #1 and #2. Semantics aside or perhaps because of semantics, we will have to agree to disagree with respect to #3. I understand your defense of Gail as a dedicated volunteer. No one can doubt her dedication and hard work, and I did not do that. I merely believe that, in this isolated incident, her conduct was unprofessional. Her posts have been deleted, which confirms this. And others in USMS have suggested she did not act in the most appropriate fashion. If you do not agree, that is fine. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, as I am entitled to mine. With respect to your second paragraph, I find it to be cruel. I don't really understand how questioning whether it is appropriate to denounce someone as a fraud on a public forum is cruel of me. I understand that Gail and others have been investigating. I also understand that paperwork from that pre-internet era can be spotty, that there has been no roster of 1968 Olympic athletes and alternates produced, and that there have been no live interviews. In light of these facts, I'm not sure one, especially a forum poster, can decisively conclude that a fraud has been perpetrated. Perhaps it has. But to say I am cruel and have shown my "true colors" for suggesting it is preferable to give someone the benefit of the doubt (and not attack them) on a public forum is odd and, yes, cruel. There are many worse traits in life than to defend someone that was attacked and perhaps wrongly accused. It has been known to happen in our society. If defending someone from an out-of-the-blue attack on an nsr thread or showing some loyalty makes me a bad person, I guess I am willing to live with it. Frankly, I think of myself as a very honest person, albeit admittedly outspoken. Although you don't know me IRL, people who do would certainly vouch for my integrity. It's easy enough to malign someone. I don't always accept it as gospel. You have faith in Gail, and I appreciate that. But you didn't need to take me down, in your position, for wondering whether someone might be innocent or disliking the public manner in which the accusation was made on the discussion forum. I will leave and let everyone else continue the, uh, discussion. If you would like to see how an Olympian master swam this weekend, you can check the results from the Sprint Classic. She acquitted herself quite nicely.

Comments for Gail... There do seem to be some discrepancies between the 1968 Trials results and the USOC listing of athletes (http://www.usoc.org/13220.htm). The 1968 Trials results show: MEN'S 100 BREASTSTROKE FINALS Donald McKenzie, 1:07.41 Kenneth Merten, 1:07.79 David Perkowski, 1:08.25 Brian Job, 1:08.36 Chester Jastremski, 1:08.55 Micael Dirksen, 1:08.76 Kenneth Doesburg, 1:08.77 Philip Long, 1:08.83 MEN'S 200 BREASTSTROKE FINALS Brian Job, 2:28.95 Kenneth Merten, 2:29.97 Philip Long, 2:30.57 David Perkowski, 2:31.76 Chester Jastremski, 2:31.78 Wayne Anderson, 2:31.81 Michael Dirksen, 2:32.02 Kenneth Doesburg, 2:32.30 The USOC web site (http://www.usoc.org/13220.htm) lists these athletes as follows: Donald McKenzie: 1968 Swimming 100 Meter Breaststroke Individual - Gold Medal Kenneth Merten: 1968 Swimming 100 Meter Backstroke Individual - Eliminated; 1968 Swimming 200 Meter Breaststroke Individual - Eliminated (my comment: he didn't swim backstroke at Trials; do they mean breaststroke?) David Perkowski: 1968 Swimming 100 Meter Backstroke Individual - Eliminated (my comment: he didn't swim backstroke at Trials; do they mean breaststroke?) Brian Job: 1968 Swimming 200 Meter Breaststroke Individual - Bronze Medal Chester Jastremski: 1968 Swimming Swimming Individual - Did Not Compete Philip Long: 1968 Swimming 200 Meter Breaststroke Individual - 7th ----------------------- Another odd thing... The ISHOF biography of Chester Jastremski (www.ishof.org/.../77cjastremski.html) says, "...in 1968 he allowed too little time for his comeback as he made alternate in the Trials and actually swam .02 seconds faster at the Olympics than the winning time when allowed to swim the heats for the U.S. Medley Relay Team..." -