Medical Question to a Doctor regarding Supplements.
Former Member
When competing last week in Hawaii, I read in the Honolulu Star Bulletin newspaper from Saturday May 18, in page A5, an advertisement promoting a product stimulating the release of the Human Growth Hormone by the body.
I read in it: "Practically EVERYONE over the age of 40 has a Growth Hormone deficiency.". I am age 43, and even though I trained more than ever for the past year, I swam slower in Hawaii in 100 free and 200 free than I did last year, which was slower than in 1998, which was slower than in 1996, which was slower than in 1994 when I peaked in yards competitions. Because of this, I kept reading:
by taking the product advertised in the newspaper "In the FIRST MONTH: You should expect: Improved stamina;...".
My question for a Medical Doctor familiar with competitions, regards one specific side effect of such a product, not approved by FDA. I remember reading in the Swimming World magazine in mid-90s, when Chinese Olympic swimmers were being caught on illegal products, that a possible side effect of Human Growth Hormone stimulants given to adults, was an increase of extremities like nose, hands, ears and forehead. A picture of the swimmer Massimiliano Rosolino (Ita.) who in the 2000SydneyOlympics won gold, silver and bronze medals, picture published in 2000 in www.nbcolympics.com, semmed to me to show the increase of the nose. www.nbcolympics.com didn't mean to imply anything like this, this is my interpretation of Rosolino's face. It is publicly documented now, that Rosolino took Human Growth Hormone stimulants before the Olympics.
My question is:
The product advertised in Honolulu Star Bulletin as being a Human Growth Hormone stimulant, does increase the nose?
If so, what safer supplements achieve "...improved stamina..."?
San Francisco Chronicle did mention once before the 2000Olympics, two Olympians who were achieving with legal supplements the outcome of illegal products.
Former Member
I agree with the previous poster Ion. Don't take this too personally, but I think you're too intense and "hardcore", and it only holds you back from success. If you talk to the most amazing athletes, they come across as pretty nonchalant or at least very relaxed. I'm starting to understand this problem now because I've been struggling with it for a long time myself. Just take the pressure off of yourself and you'll probably be amazed by the results. Don't sweat it too much, the greatest never really do.
Have a look at this article by Ron Johnson:
swiminfo.com/.../200204-01st_art.asp
Which discusses how 'underloading' and 'overloading' should be mixed in a workout program. Ion, your favorite workouts are definitely in the 'overloading' category.
I've got to say, had I been in Hawaii, I would have made a point to watch Ion swim as well--he truly is a swimming "personality." I have no sage advice. But to "listen" to the postings and pull from Ion his mental and physical training patterns, I have one truly sincere thing to suggest: relax!!!!! You are thinking too much, planning too much, and are too aware of everything around you. Find a coach and workouts you like, strap on the goggles, feel the water and enjoy. You build entirely too much pressure and expectation in your head, and invariably cannot reach the goals you set. E-N-J-O-Y being able to participate in the BEST activity that exists on earth.
Ion:
Have you ever been videotaped? Since you were having trouble visualizing the way Phil described your stroke, this might help you a lot. My team had a clinic a month or so ago, put on for us by the University of Kentucky varsity and coaches (as a fundraiser for them), and one of the most helpful things they did was videotape us, and then one of the coaches did a voice-over and described what they saw about our stroke and made suggestions on how to improve it. (The commentary on my strokes was "Looks good, just needs to be faster"! What they were much too tactful to say was, "You know, Meg, you'd go a lot faster if you'd lose about 30 pounds"!)
Meg
Ion,
As I see it, the arm should enter the water before it is fully extended, in fact, still bent. So while the arm is in the water, it extends forward and down and the body rolls, with the effect that the hand extends even farther forward (and down), with respect to the head. It may seem that the extension should occur in the air, but that results in the hand being at the surface of the water for the start of the pull portion of the stroke, when in fact it should be a foot or two below the surface, ready to start the catch and pull. So by extending the arm in the air, you still have to move the hand relatively deep into the water for an effective pull, wasting time (and I think stressing the shoulder), or start to pull too early with a shallower and less effective pull (and also stressing the shoulder).
So what I saw was you stretching your arm in the air, so that when it entered the water it was already straight, and as described above not in a good place to start the power part of your pull.
I think most good swimmers, particularly male, swim as I described. One clear exception at the international level is Brook Bennett. But her action still puts the arm in the water before it is fully extended, but she does not stretch out forward as much, and gets right away into the power pull.
I did not notice a significant catch up in your stroke, though I was not looking for it explicitly. No way was it as extreme as you describe, and my (rapidly getting vague) memory tells me that you could use some more catchup.
Now Paul Smith's stroke is something to watch and I think emulate, at least for swimmers taller than 6'0". He has lots of forward extension and more catchup character than almost anyone. His turnover is relatively slow, but his DPS is huge. His body position, head position, and streamline are excellent. He keeps his strong kick behind his body, so his feet do not wander side to side, as yours tend to do. Yes, I think some characteristics of his stroke work particularly well because of his height and armspan and strength, but I suspect everyone would be a better swimmer if they copied him.
Based on reading Gold In The Water ... well, they were far from easy does it.
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Definitely.
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And the book almost made fun of the European swimmer (from a smal country ... but I can remember the details) who really did take it easier.
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It is Sergey Mariniuk from Moldavia.
He was fed up with training hard for 400 IM in 1992Olympics and 1996Olympics and making the finals but not medalling. Remarkably, in the 2000Olympics he swam only five seconds slower than his lifetime best, with what amounts to just six months of easy training from 1996 until 2000.
Moldavia borders my native country, Romania. Historically Moldavia is a part of Romania, with such a great prince as Stefan the Great was, for example. In the 20th. century, Roosevelt (US) and Stalin (Rus) decided at Yalta to give Moldavia to USSR. Ethnically, Moldavia and Romania had had the same type of population, Macedonians since Alexander the Great's empire, latinized since Roman emperor Trajan conquered in 100 AD Dacia led by Decebal at Sarmisegetuza. Since being under USSR, latin Moldavia got an influx of slavic Russians, like Sergey Mariniuk. I met him in May 1996, in a 50 meter competition at Santa Clara, the last time I swam well before declining: 20.xx in 1500 meter, and 1.04 in 100 meter freestyle the next day. A few days later I had had a car accident.
Phil posted:
Originally posted by Philip Arcuni
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Maybe you are getting old, like the rest of us.
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I say: maybe.
Phil also posted:
Originally posted by Philip Arcuni
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Finally, the best swimmers that I observe recover into the water just in front of their head. You stretch your arms out and kind of lay them on the surface of the water. I think this wastes a significant part of your stroke, ...
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I say: I don't picture this; part of it, is the terminology "...recover into the water just in front of their head."; in a freestyle arm motion, there are the phases of the arm entering the water, the arm pulling underwater, then the arm recovering for the next entrance in the water starting from the hip; "...recover into the water just in front of their head." implies that the arm after having entered the water in front of the head, recovers "...into the water just in front of their head." without pulling; another part of the statement that I don't picture, is "You stretch your arms out and kind of lay them on the surface of the water."; am I swimming catch-up drill style, with the front arm pausing while the other catches up, thus both arms laying, for a fraction of a second, in front?
Jim, I read your article for the magazine GQ, which seems like a thorough study of what supplements are on the legal but wild US market. Ironically, like in the second link you posted, I got the impression that time trials improvements described, the 100 meter freestyle after testosterone increase and the 1000 yards freestyle, suggest that something works. I know your best season is now, well outside of any studies, but something worked. "HgH tic tacs"?...
SupaFly wrote:
"Don't sweat it too much, the greatest never really do."
I think it depends on who the swimmer is. MANY word class swimmers get seriously worked up before a race. Some do not and sit by the block in utter peace...others are like cages TIGERS...
Ever swimmer is different....at least that is what I see...
Based on reading Gold In The Water ... well, they were far from easy does it. And the book almost made fun of the European swimmer (from a smal country ... but I can remember the details) who really did take it easier.
I do agree with the overall sentiment here that at the Masters level ... swimmers are generally older and generally committed to many aspects of active lives (family, work, other hobbies ... ok, that's pushing it) ... the approach to swimming is best one of both dedication and enjoyment. And that makes for a fairly easy-going approach.
Thanks Phil.
Thanks Meg.
I will look into your inputs, as soon as I find somebody here who I trust can monitor my technique, which is not easy to find: it's a big program here, with not much profound individual attention, and lots of chatter.
