Medical Question to a Doctor regarding Supplements.
Former Member
When competing last week in Hawaii, I read in the Honolulu Star Bulletin newspaper from Saturday May 18, in page A5, an advertisement promoting a product stimulating the release of the Human Growth Hormone by the body.
I read in it: "Practically EVERYONE over the age of 40 has a Growth Hormone deficiency.". I am age 43, and even though I trained more than ever for the past year, I swam slower in Hawaii in 100 free and 200 free than I did last year, which was slower than in 1998, which was slower than in 1996, which was slower than in 1994 when I peaked in yards competitions. Because of this, I kept reading:
by taking the product advertised in the newspaper "In the FIRST MONTH: You should expect: Improved stamina;...".
My question for a Medical Doctor familiar with competitions, regards one specific side effect of such a product, not approved by FDA. I remember reading in the Swimming World magazine in mid-90s, when Chinese Olympic swimmers were being caught on illegal products, that a possible side effect of Human Growth Hormone stimulants given to adults, was an increase of extremities like nose, hands, ears and forehead. A picture of the swimmer Massimiliano Rosolino (Ita.) who in the 2000SydneyOlympics won gold, silver and bronze medals, picture published in 2000 in www.nbcolympics.com, semmed to me to show the increase of the nose. www.nbcolympics.com didn't mean to imply anything like this, this is my interpretation of Rosolino's face. It is publicly documented now, that Rosolino took Human Growth Hormone stimulants before the Olympics.
My question is:
The product advertised in Honolulu Star Bulletin as being a Human Growth Hormone stimulant, does increase the nose?
If so, what safer supplements achieve "...improved stamina..."?
San Francisco Chronicle did mention once before the 2000Olympics, two Olympians who were achieving with legal supplements the outcome of illegal products.
Former Member
Ion:
Gail, Paul and others are giving you great advice. Don't beat yourself up over your 100 free time. Many things could have caused that. Emmett hit on one very important possibility..over training. Plus, little things like the time difference, strange pool, not sleeping in your own bed and all kinds of factors can lead to poor meet times. Nerves, eating, body adjustment to new surroundings...lets face it...when we travel (especially us older guys) we are no longer immersed in our daily routines and this throws us off.
Lastly, the 100 free has very little room for error....make one or two mistakes and the stop watch can be very unkind.
Ion:
You’re a posting "Personality"
I'm sure many Masters Swimmers walked over to watch you swim....Had I been able to attend the Nationals in Hawaii, I know I would have watched you swim.
Originally posted by GZoltners
The medical things I've seen suggest that HgH is the world's greatest stuff, decreases fat and recovery time, increases lean body mass, etc. If you have an excess you will get growth in the face. Look at really tall people and some of them exhibit this because of a potential hormonal imbalance.
...
Yes.
From my non-expert knowledge, Human Growth Hormone is given to people while in their growing process, people who exhibit early signs of growing defficiency. It helps them grow, as long as they are still in the growing process and under expert medical monitoring.
When given to adults beyond the age of the growing process, which is beyond the age of 25, the effects are increased vitality and increasing of extremities, like nose, hands, forehead, feet.
One link posted by Jim, states that in 1996AtlantaOlympics it was the performance enhancer of many state supervised athletes from around the world.
Originally posted by GZoltners
...
The real trick here is to increase your HgH naturally, by encouraging your body to do it. No real magic, here. Get enough sleep. Don't eat within a few hours of bedtime; especially avoid carbohydrates. Make sure you are getting enough protein in your diet. Make sure you are getting enough good fats in your diet. Make sure you are not overtrained.
...
This seems to me the healthiest way of living I should keep pursuing, and I am already implementing it.
Originally posted by GZoltners
...
On that 100 free breathing, I'd recommend not breathing for a bit off the start, and then breathing every 2-4 armpulls the rest of the race. Do not breathe inside the flags at the finish. You do need the oxygen to make it through the last part of the race.
...
Swim fast,
Greg
Yes.
What Phil decried as abyssimal in my breathing, and endoresed by Paul too, which is me breathing coming in the flip turn and breathing again after the flip turn, is a defect I have, along with an imperfect streamline in the flip turn.
Right now, coming in the flip turn I need a breath otherwise my turn would be done on lame legs. Breathing right after the turn is because like a survivor I feel I need it.
I returned to swimming a couple years ago after 6 years away, I tried some of those over the counter supplements trying to get back how I used to perform quickly. In the end for me the true solution came down to finding the right diet, swim workout plan, lots of time spent on working on stroke and technique, weight lifting plan, sleep, etc... Thanks to a lot of advice on this forum, I've improved many aspects in all those areas which have helped progress my swimming. All the different types of pills I tried (most of which were natural supplements) really didn't do anything other than act like a placebo. A good focus on diet can do a lot more than I think any over the counter pill can. And, the pills cost way too much money. I could kick myself for wasting all that money. I recommend focusing on the items I listed above and finding the best combination that works.
Ion:
Assuming you are working your season as hard as you say you are, then you likely need a taper that's longer than a week. At one week into taper I'd expect you to be at a low point, not a high point in terms of performance potential. Consider 2-3 weeks of taper.
The medical things I've seen suggest that HgH is the world's greatest stuff, decreases fat and recovery time, increases lean body mass, etc. If you have an excess you will get growth in the face. Look at really tall people and some of them exhibit this because of a potential hormonal imbalance. However, like anything else your body produces, you will damage the feedback loop for the substance in your body if you add extra to your system. Your system will stop producing as much HgH if it is getting it externally.
The real trick here is to increase your HgH naturally, by encouraging your body to do it. No real magic, here. Get enough sleep. Don't eat within a few hours of bedtime; especially avoid carbohydrates. Make sure you are getting enough protein in your diet. Make sure you are getting enough good fats in your diet. Make sure you are not overtrained. There are some amino acids you can take which encourage your body to produce HgH, but I don't think the price is worth the effect.
If you want to increase testosterone, the best thing is to race and win!
On that 100 free breathing, I'd recommend not breathing for a bit off the start, and then breathing every 2-4 armpulls the rest of the race. Do not breathe inside the flags at the finish. You do need the oxygen to make it through the last part of the race. I'm pretty sure the 41-42 second 100 swimmers don't do that, but if you're that fast you don't need technique advice from me.
I am not a doctor!
Swim fast,
Greg
Originally posted by emmett
...
At one week into taper I'd expect you to be at a low point, not a high point in terms of performance potential. Consider 2-3 weeks of taper.
Point taken.
The challenge was and will still be, to do a taper under good supervision.
Originally posted by Kevin in MD
So what was prohibition like?
:D
Originally posted by Mark in MD
Hey Kevin,
So which prohibition to which you refer? :confused: Can we have a little history lesson here? :o
Mark in MD
He is is not referring to the 1920s, but the USMS prohibition of "untreated water":
below is an excerpt of the Kevin's post from the thread 'Long Term Health Effects'.
Originally posted by Kevin in MD
If you think the long term health effects of swimming in chlorinated water is bad ...
Long term effects of swimming in untreated water is even worse!
...
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Paul Smith
...
I say the same things at Nationals that Phil pointed out, basically a tremendous need for intensive stroke work. I would also suggest that Emmett nailed it as well, ...
...
The thing that is not nailed is with this same faulty technique I have, April 9, 1994 I competed for the first time in yards, in Federal Way, Washington with a lifetime best of 5:51.96 in 500 free, within minutes of a lifetime best of 2:09.54 in 200 free.
May 2002 in Hawaii, with this same faulty technique, I couldn't beat them even on separate days allowing for rest.
The 200 and the 500 felt like if I were to accelerate and match shadows in the lanes next to me, my heart rate would sky-rocket, thus I held back.
What's this: lack of aerobic stamina, or surprisingly being 167 pounds on race day while normally being 162, thus having more body weight to carry on, or mistakingly not having eaten food before racing other than power bars?
Looking back, I had had a lucky streak of swimming improvements from 1986 until 1996. It's a streak that has stopped, and I cannot reverse it unless I deal with aging I believe, having already eliminated other distractions like five surgeries and training in non-competitive places. I see in sports, streaks that stop, like at his level Pete Sampras' winningest streak in tennis history that has stopped and he cannot reverse. You having just re-started swimming Paul, three years ago, I believe your lucky streak of swimming improvements, like 1:43.05 for 200 free now and 1:43.37 last year, will seemingly inexplainable stop too.
How to reverse back into the streak, then?
On a lighter note Paul, given you sign yourself as being 'Tall Paul', have you considered that me being eleven months older than you, it means that for at least one year, I was taller than you?
Anyway, the ShortCourseNationals is only a breakfast snack in my season, because LongCourseNationals in Cleveland are coming up soon. I should think technique improvements then, a healthy diet and persistent training.
