I read the following PDF regarding the updated rule and interpretation for the freestyle portion of the IM:
www.usms.org/.../20150911_fina_im_interpretation.pdf
My question is regarding the freestyle flip turn. When you turn, you flip onto your back, push off and start twisting to the proper position for freestyle. It usually happens fairly fast so you're not completely on the back for any more than one kick worth at the most and by then you've begun rotating to the side. Honestly, I still flip slightly diagonally, so my feet land a bit off-horizontal but I've been working on correcting it to what has been shown to me as a more proper technique.
But I know as soon as I post this notice for my masters team on Wednesday, they are going to ask the same questions. I would assume that this position of being on the back is normal in freestyle and wouldn't constitute backstroke swimming but I've been wrong plenty of times in trying to interpret rules. But it gets me into wondering, what's going to be the line between a normal freestyle flip turn and too much time on your back? Obviously, no SDK-ing on your back down the length of the pool but exactly how fast does that twist need to be? Is there a standpoint from the officials on this yet?
Thanks in advance!
Given the image Rob posted, and Kathy's post, the only legal turn for the freestyle leg of IM would be an open turn. Is there any way to execute a flip turn without being on one's back prior to touching the wall?
Turns are considered discrete from swimming. You just need to be toward the *** when your feet leave the wall.
Turns are considered discrete from swimming. You just need to be toward the *** when your feet leave the wall.
Which is counter to virtually all current coaching on freestyle turns. Most swimmers aren't nearly as slow to rotate to "toward the ***" as Lochte, but the vast majority are coming off the wall somewhere between completely inverted and 90* to horizontal.
Which is counter to virtually all current coaching on freestyle turns. Most swimmers aren't nearly as slow to rotate to "toward the ***" as Lochte, but the vast majority are coming off the wall somewhere between completely inverted and 90* to horizontal.
Precisely. I bet you never knew that, according to FINA, you've actually been swimming backstroke all this time during freestyle races. :banana:
Which is counter to virtually all current coaching on freestyle turns. Most swimmers aren't nearly as slow to rotate to "toward the ***" as Lochte, but the vast majority are coming off the wall somewhere between completely inverted and 90* to horizontal.
Yes, and lots of people including ordinary middle-aged Masters swimmers such as myself do exactly what Lochte did when they swim shorter freestyle races. I am faster SDK-ing on my back than on my front, so I stay on my back underwater for a while when I swim the 50/100 free. But even in longer races where I spin and surface quickly because I need to breathe, I always push off on my back. I even work on it in practice!
Just adds to breaststroke as one more reason never to race IM.
I think that at the next international meet Lochte is in where he swims the 400 IM he should do an open turn on the free to free turn and then ask why all the others weren't DQd(unless everyone radically alters their turns.)
I've got a slight issue with this interpretation. Is it really required to ever take an arm stroke in butterfly? There are no sequencing requirements in fly, so it seems like someone could just kick the entire race with their arms streamlined out front and not be disqualified as long as they surface by 15 meters off each wall. If that's the case it's contrary to this interpretation.
By the way, I think this is one of the dumbest rule changes/clarifications of all time. It solved a problem which was not a problem to begin with. And, yes, I realize USMS is just aligning to the new FINA interpretation. FINA bears the responsibility for this abomination.
kirk,
you are correct on both!!!
which is why, if you take a dolphin kick while on the ***, you are doing fly. therefore, DQ for swimming more than 1/4 of the IM fly, even on the *** and free legs.
yes, this even surpases the tech suit debacle.
kirk,
you are correct on both!!!
which is why, if you take a dolphin kick while on the ***, you are doing fly. therefore, DQ for swimming more than 1/4 of the IM fly, even on the *** and free legs.
yes, this even surpases the tech suit debacle.
I agree. My question is why bother instituting this rule as long as there is a 15m rule in effect? Allowing a dolphin kick off the wall in the breaststroke makes less sense than letting someone kick on their back off the turn in freestyle on an IM...
the bigger question is:
why is it legal to swim on my *** to do a backstroke turn, but it is illegal to be on my back after a freestyle turn?
The answer to this is the IM. I don't believe its legal to swim on your *** to do a backstroke turn in the IM but its obviously legal in backstroke and if someone wanted to do it in any distance in a freestyle race it would be legal. With this new rule it would be illegal to be on your back after a freestyle turn in the IM but it would not be illegal to be on your back after a freestyle turn in a freestyle event. Since Ryan Lochte is kind of the inventor or pioneer of this because he believes it faster maybe he can test this in a 200 Free event to see if its actually faster like he believes it is in the 200 IM. To me the difference would be the speed coming into the wall would not be as great in breaststroke as in free and perhaps that is why it has not been tried.
I kinda of see the connection of dolphin kick in breaststroke as being part of fly but FINA can say the dolphin kick is part of *** because you can do it in the individual event and they made it legal in that event just like you can do a dolphin kick in backstroke off starts and turns.
frank,
you need to read rule 101.4.3
Durning the turn the shoulders may be turned past the vertical towards the ***, after which an immediate continuous single arm pull or an immediate continuous double arm pull maybe used to initiate the turn.
VERY LEGAL on any backstroke turn of the 400 IM (both) and 200 IM scy.
so here we have that it is perfectly legal to be on your *** for backstroke and even taking an arm pull, but you can NOT be on your back at any point during the freestyle of an IM.
