Major 1650 sandbagging by a forum member

Is "sandbagging" the new "tech suit" on the forums for inciting debates? I'm pro-both. People didn't really get worked up until it was twisted into a split request debate. :D

No, chowmi agreed with my "posts" and I stated that I would "never say it's only masters." :) I didn't see any name calling, Mike. With the recent uptick in forum moderation, a true name caller would have gotten the boot! The only real name calling (egocentric, unethical) was apparently hypothetical. Just wait, I'm plotting an epic sprinters vs. people who deserve respect thread.

This was hardly a neutrally worded question: . Quite true. However, my official position on split requests is: Go for it, I have no objection & don't think it inconveniences anyone in a meaningful way. I don't think I would ever do one, but that's because I'm way slower by myself than when racing other people.

Which begs the question, why do we even bother seeding events? As I suggested on another thread, we could just allow swimmers to choose their heat and their lane like the airlines do for on line seat selection. And we could charge more for "prime" lanes and heats. One reason is for time efficiency, I think a lot of people often DO enter reasonable approximations of the time they expect to do. Even Patrick! :-) It is an interesting idea but personally I would hate to be at that meet. Swimming against others of approximately the same speed -- ie, racing -- is a good reason to attend a meet! Maybe this is less important in 50s when (ideally) you're not really supposed to look at others and calm water is more prized. Sandbagging is not a respectful thing to do:bolt: Sandbagging is purposely misrepresenting your time in order to thwart the meet director's seeding. So I can certainly understand why meet directors might want to discourage the practice. Participants may view it as a victimless/harmless thing, akin to dyeing your hair or fibbing about your weight; others think it more like cheating on your taxes or lying about your age to gain a competitive advantage. The truth is probably somewhere between. Like I said before, personally I don't consider what PWB did as sandbagging since he seemed to put in a good-faith estimate of his time. But I recently remembered another race with a split request: Atlanta nationals in the 100 back, I was seeded next to Richie Hughey and was anticipating a good race. I thought about it during warmup, getting that nervous feeling you get; just before the starter whistled us to the blocks he thoughtfully told me and the person on his other side that he was actually going for a 50 split time -- trying for a national record -- and was going to cruise the rest of the race. I felt a little let down by the knowledge since there wasn't really anyone else in the heat to push me. The fact that he was going for MY record made me feel odd too, since I it felt weird to be "racing" someone yet not really being able to defend it. I can't say for sure that it affected my time or not but it changed the race for me. Anyway, obviously what he did was perfectly legit and it was nice of him to let us know (although in an odd way I wish he hadn't, since maybe it would have lit a fire under me to see someone take it out so fast). But whether you like them or not -- and I'm not arguing against them now -- split requests do affect others, however small those effects may be. I go to meets partly to race, and split requests thwart that just a little bit too, similar to sandbagging.

Perhaps the individual in question is simply entering using this season's best times so far, just like NCAA championships. i just looked it up in the usms event ranking database. they have entered nationals 5secs slower than their best this season and they have now swum the 1650 this seaon. wishful thinking, but no.

Participants may view it as a victimless/harmless thing, akin to dyeing your hair or fibbing about your weight; others think it more like cheating on your taxes or lying about your age to gain a competitive advantage. The truth is probably somewhere between. C'mon! It is ludicrous to even use sandbagging and cheating on your taxes (felony) in the same sentence. Sandbagging is more like a mosquito bite and way less serious than dying your hair. Some people like to race themselves and some like to raise others. The 1650 "sandbagger," who does this every year apparently, is likely the former. I don't think you can necessarily cast aspersions on that preference; everyone is different when it comes to meets and racing. I like racing others, but can also happily do a split request. I can't imagine sandbagging at nationals though, and am a tad bummed I have no one to race in the 100 back.

everyone is different when it comes to meets and racing. I like racing others You've mentioned this before, but another reason women might sandbag is the possibility of being seeded in a heat of fast men who might have 50 pounds or more on them and create a lot of turbulence. Seed yourself a little slow and you might get out this washing machine.

You've mentioned this before, but another reason women might sandbag is the possibility of being seeded in a heat of fast men who might have 50 pounds or more on them and create a lot of turbulence. Seed yourself a little slow and you might get out this washing machine. This is one of the only times women sandbag, from my own observations. I was extremely glad when Jeff Roddin separated men and women in the 50s at our local mixed gender SCM meet that everyone here rests for. Men sandbag far far more than women. I routinely see guys seed themselves 3-6 seconds slower than they go in a 100. Now, some of that could be guessing wrong, but not all of it. I do wonder if people are oblivious about the objections to sandbagging. After all, most masters aren't reading this forum. :)

UCLA swim meet this past Sunday. A person in the 40-44 age group put a 50 minute seed time, and swam it in 22:29.68. That one does drive me up the wall. That person wanted to swim and go home so they put in the 50 minutes seed time to be in heat 1. But they screwed up the timeline of the meet for everyone else. The meet is now ahead of schedule by 20 minutes because they used the 50 minutes as anticipated time. People who do it should be drawn and quartered. Or possibly make them take care of my kids for the extra hour I had to be at the pool just in case a few people pulled this maneuver in the 1650 and 500. That would be a more fitting punishment than drawing and quartering. If you put in a reasonable time you are delaying the meet by a few minutes. This is from the aforementioned effect of having a slower person in a faster heat. In the 1650 this can potentially be a 5 minute change to the timeline depending on how many triathletes show up. For that drawing and quartering are unnecessary, the perpetrator has to buy a plate of appetizers for the group at the post meet get together.

That one does drive me up the wall. That person wanted to swim and go home so they put in the 50 minutes seed time to be in heat 1. But they screwed up the timeline of the meet for everyone else....Or possibly make them take care of my kids for the extra hour I had to be at the pool Actually this may save 20 plus minutes on your babysitter...so you may actually owe the sandbagger baby sitting money for speeding up the meet timeline....sorry for the interruption...carry on everybody.