Looks like it is to gain 20 minutes of rest before doing the 400 IM.
What do you folks think? Fair play or not?
I say anyone attempting the 1650 and 400 IM back to back deserves some slack.
C'mon! It is ludicrous to even use sandbagging and cheating on your taxes (felony) in the same sentence. Sandbagging is more like a mosquito bite and way less serious than dying your hair.
You can get malaria from mosquito bites. I wouldn't go so far as to equate sandbagging with that! Maybe I would equate it with that annoying whine in your ear that seems to happen at 4am and keeps you up for the next two hours... :-)
I was using two points to establish a continuum, and I agree that they were all ridiculous examples (lying about your age can get you suspended from USMS, unlike sandbagging). Obviously you view this as a victimless crime but I wish you could respect that not everyone feels so dismissive about it...a point that seems rather obvious given the heat the topic often generates on the forums.
Obviously you view this as a victimless crime but I wish you could respect that not everyone feels so dismissive about it...a point that seems rather obvious given the heat the topic often generates on the forums.
To the contrary, I am not advocating it and I do understand others POV. I can see how it can be annoying and impede racing, especially in the distance events where pacing is important. (Of course, lots of things can be potentially annoying at meets -- swimming 50 fly next to big guys, getting stuck in an end lane, racing in a four foot deep pool, etc.) I can certainly see how it could annoy meet directors, like Kevin above, if the timeline goes wildly awry.
I don't view it, however, as a "victimless crime" because not only is it not a "crime," it is legal. In fact, when I read extreme characterizations like "crime," "immoral," "egocentric," or "unethical," I feel like your "side" is the one being dismissive and downright histrionic about a legal act. My own view is that it is not the end of the world or a huge deal if, occasionally, someone needs more rest at a meet or wants to cram events into one day instead of two or puts in a split request. We can't always attend every meet or every day of every meet, and sometimes people want to get times. This is hardly a "dismissive" view. I'm just not inclined to get on people's cases about it. This is not because I think "it's only masters." It's because sometimes there are valid, acceptable or understandable reasons for masters with busy lives to deviate from perfect racing conditions, which seem to be elusive anyway.
Btw, I haven't sandbagged a time since March 2012 (100 back, set the NR) to stay out of the fast boy heat at a mixed gender taper meet that was important to me. I got absolutely raked over the coals on this forum for that. I'm trying to avoid forum bans now. :) Though I certainly reserve the right to do it again!
I'm not sure what to make of the "camaraderie" defense.
kurt, i'm just razzing ya since you seemed to be an entire topic unto yourself 2 years ago (cough on this subject cough).
and for the record, you dont even do it 1/10th the amount of times the Ande does it.
what is more interesting is that there is another long distance national champion that in the past 5 years has never entered nationals with their best time. and yet is never reseeded. this year they are entered in the 500 and 1650 and neither of their entry times are from last years nats (their 1650 entry this year is 55secs slower than what they went last year and 500 is 14secs slower).
Perhaps the individual in question is simply entering using this season's best times so far, just like NCAA championships.
My view is that it is not the end of the world or a huge deal if, occasionally, someone needs more rest at a meet ...
Sprinters
...wants to cram events into one day instead of two.
Distance swimmers, those of swimming purity
...puts in a split request.
Sprinters
We can't always attend every meet or every day of every meet
Sprinters
...and sometimes people can be cut some slack so they can get times they want.
Sprinters
This is one of the only times women sandbag, from my own observations. I was extremely glad when Jeff Roddin separated men and women in the 50s at our local mixed gender SCM meet that everyone here rests for. Men sandbag far far more than women. I routinely see guys seed themselves 3-5 seconds slower than they go in a 100. Now, some of that could be guessing wrong, but not all of it.
Apparently they prefer the camaraderie of the slower heats.
Sprinters
Yeah, but you're stuck with us. You wouldn't get any warm down between events without us, or be able to pat yourselves on the back for being so tough and pure.
However, the last couple sandbagging threads have been about those so-called pure distance swimmers (Kurt, Patrick, Erwin, etc). And distance swimmer sandbagging does way more damage to racing conditions and the timeline than do our measly split requests.
when I read extreme characterizations like "crime," "immoral," "egocentric," "misrepresentation" or "unethical,"
Sandbagging seems unquestionably to be a mis-representation, which is why I compared it to others examples that most would not consider offensive, like dyeing your hair. One enters a time that one fully expects is incorrect. How is that extreme? What would you call it? ("Mis-representation" certainly sounds less offensive than "sandbagging" to my ears, but maybe that's just me.)
I imagine the moralizing wears thin. Owners of Hummers perhaps feel the same way about Prius owners.
Sandbagging seems unquestionably to be a mis-representation, which is why I compared it to others examples that most would not consider offensive, like dyeing your hair. One enters a time that one fully expects is incorrect. How is that extreme? What would you call it? ("Mis-representation" certainly sounds less offensive than "sandbagging" to my ears, but maybe that's just me.)
I imagine the moralizing wears thin. Owners of Hummers perhaps feel the same way about Prius owners.
Fine! I will take "misrepresentation" off the list. The others terms are histrionic, inflammatory and false, which you concede by omission. :)
I don't own either car, living in that gray area.
Unruh, I have never seen my name used so much in vain. I thought you would understand my unreasonable fear of being stuck in Birmingham, given your extensive time in the Texas penitentiary system:). Sandbagging is indeed low-brow and I am ashamed when I do it. If somebody beat me from an earlier heat by sandbagging, I would call them a "turd" (behind their back of course), and move on. I will never understand why this gets some people's underwear in such a bundle when more important issues exist like innocent people getting blown up and administrations that can't put two words like "islamic terrorist" together....peace.
kurt, i'm just razzing ya since you seemed to be an entire topic unto yourself 2 years ago (cough on this subject cough).
and for the record, you dont even do it 1/10th the amount of times the Ande does it.
what is more interesting is that there is another long distance national champion that in the past 5 years has never entered nationals with their best time. and yet is never reseeded. this year they are entered in the 500 and 1650 and neither of their entry times are from last years nats (their 1650 entry this year is 55secs slower than what they went last year and 500 is 14secs slower).
