Kicking rhythm?

Can someone explain to me the differences in the Kicking Rhythms?The 2 main kicking rhythms are a 2-beat kick (per complete arm cycle) and a 6-beat kick. Kicking inconsistent can be attributed to lots of causes, such as bad hand placement (over-reaching can throw the hips out of line and require compensation from the kick), asymmetrical body roll, improper balance (head too high, hips/legs drop), not kicking up AND down, lack of ankle/knee/hip flexibility , too much knee bend, not enough knee bend...

... Kicking inconsistent can be attributed to lots of causes, such as bad hand placement (over-reaching can throw the hips out of line and require compensation from the kick), asymmetrical body roll, improper balance (head too high, hips/legs drop), not kicking up AND down, lack of ankle/knee/hip flexibility , too much knee bend, not enough knee bend... Or in my case all of the above...

vo2, you have a great way of verbalizing what I'm slowly discovering seems to be the very crux of swimming well: an engaged core. I'm with Syd - almost 40 years of bad habits to overcome and finding that engaged core very elusive and fleeting - and tiring as all heck. So it's very helpful to hear you describe the "huge (initial) metabolic cost" of swimming this way. I had no idea just how huge it was. I was getting so tired so quickly in swim practice that I actually became hypochondriacal and went to see my doctor, telling him there must something wrong with my lungs or heart! But after an EKG, a stress test, and sucking on some gizmo called something like an "inspirometer," I can rest assured that I am just in the early stages of dealing with that huge metabolic cost of really using my core for maybe the first time in my life. If I even just stand with my hands clasped behind my back and squeeze my scapulas together - or do any other exercises that recreates swimming with an engage my core - I get winded pretty quickly. So it's great to hear that this is a normal stage of progress - a "hump" that needs to be gotten over - and that eventually will be gotten over. And slowly, it is happening: I'm able to do a 100 now while maintaining that engaged core feeling. Looking forward to my 1st 500 that way...!

I'm truly inspired! Because I never realized those training wheels actually came off! :D But seriously, I'm looking forward to the experience you describe - and will stick with it till it happens. As for kicking rhythm, does 4-beat fit in to the picture anywhere? I do 2-beat for longer swims, but when I speed up, I find myself naturally going to 4-beat. 6-beat seems like it would really require a huge output of energy. Is that part of the learning to swim with an engaged core equation?

I am happy to pass on what broke me of the 'core-less' stroke. Harped on a ton, but body position doesn't happen by accident. And as you probably already know everything is tied together so having a properly timed kick is made much easier by having everything working together...IMO. Stand proud, swim proud. Scapulas retracted/shoulders back or simply....don't slouch. Make sure you kick from the core...not snap at the knees. Plantar flex those ankles. The abdominal group you want to feel is the transverse abdominus, NOT the rectus abdominus. Rectus is the 6 pack ab group, transverse is the deep spinal stabilizing group. When you are reaching for something on a shelf that stays just out of reach, stretch stretch strech.....still can't reach it. That is what you want to feel. Don't let that go and keep it there....all the time. It's really easy to release that core tension towards the end of your pull through so be aware of that and keep that good tension there. This isn't 'watch me squat 500 lbs.' tension, just enough to turn the muscles on so they are in the driver's seat. The metabolic cost of doing this is huge early on, but it will pass and then become second nature. 50's were hard for me to keep it together at first. Now I can do 500's....and so will you! Slowly at first and then it will come along fast in adaptation. Good luck and have fun you are on your way to good stuff! Oh, I hear you, but this feeling is so elusive and fleeting for me. If only I could hold on to it. But I get tired or something distracts me (like a flip turn) and in a second it is all gone. I am working on it, though... everyday, or at least every time I have a chance to get into the pool but I am working against 40 years of bad habits and I know it is going to take some time. Any ideas/thoughts on how to hold on to that feeling would be so appreciated.

Great post vo2! Thanks for that. Last night when I was in the pool I felt like my kick was a bit better... then I got home and read this and was like... man he is right! Ha well I'm not right, but the guy that taught me is:) Just passing on his golden nuggets of wisdom. Hope it works stick with it b/c there is no single aspect of the stroke which has paid bigger dividends for me than this.

Great I'm glad it came through clearly...sometimes things get lost in text only. Just stick with it b/c once your body figures out you are only going to let it swim with the core engaged then it will come quickly. Might even be a mental component there not sure. But all of a sudden you will just take off kind of like your first rip around the block w/o training wheels and that is your new 'normal'. And man it's fun so stick with it! One little tidbit. You have to push through that barrier daily, don't make it like a drill day or something. If you make a decision that this is how I'm going to swim from now of it will come quickly. And if you completely falter at 2K and have a 3K written down? That's a tough one. When I fell apart we bagged it and did some kicking drills or something else b/c there is no sense swimming junk yardage with poor form....at least IMO. I'd take it to the point where I'd pop and do a few hundred more just to make sure I squeezed every drop out that day, but would not pound in yardage 'just because' once my form went back to the old way. Make sense? Might not be easy to do b/c I come from the HTFU era, but it's only for a bit until you ingrain it.

It's tough to tell w/o looking at your stroke, but I can take a guess from your pull buoy comment. Almost 3 decades of triathlon, swimming with triathletes and not swimmers and all around bad practice habits helped me ingrain exactly what you are describing. When adding a kick disrupts rhythm my thoughts, having fought this at times myself, are that you may not swimming with an engaged core. The pull buoy is great for letting one swim so so w/o an engaged core and is a very bad crutch IMO if used in this manner. It's human nature to relax when the pull buoy crutch is added. Legs are lifted, lower drag position, zero metabolic cost to do so and all seems good in the world right? Until you put that same muscle pattern/activation into play w/o a buoy and then it ain't so hot. In point of fact my go to thought when things get tough at the end of any hard set is '6 beat kick from the core' and that brings things back in harmony for me. When the kick starts to shut down so goes my rhythm. Just remember that a spastic kick isn't the goal though so don't go too far to the other end of the spectrum. One of the most exciting break throughs in locking in to the idea of holding water and achieving a great catch/pull through is creating torque through your core to resist against with a properly timed kick. You are attempting to create the same type of torque you generate in land based sports akin to throwing a baseball or hitting a golf ball. Tough part is you are face down in water! The kick is what makes this all possible IF the core is being used as the motor. No one had ever told me this was the same feel I was after and that is my fault for not swimming with swimmers and good instruction. Being a baseball player all this made perfect sense once a good coach got hold of me and explained this concept. One particular tip that helped and still helps me get good rhythm is to push off and start my kick slightly b/f stroke 1, but not b/f a proper streamline and break out are done. It's just a couple of flutters, maybe 2 to 3 kicks b/f that first pull on the break out. That sets my tone. Otherwise if I attempt to start stroking and kicking at the same time or worse pulling with no kick then I start off sketchy. Make sure you have a plantar flexed ankle, kick is powered from your core and play with the amplitude. Think tight streamlined kicks inside a bucket. Giant spaz kicks are great for adding drag, lifting your feet out of the water and helping you go nowhere fast:)

It's tough to tell w/o looking at your stroke, but I can take a guess from your pull buoy comment. Almost 3 decades of triathlon, swimming with triathletes and not swimmers and all around bad practice habits helped me ingrain exactly what you are describing. When adding a kick disrupts rhythm my thoughts, having fought this at times myself, are that you may not swimming with an engaged core. The pull buoy is great for letting one swim so so w/o an engaged core and is a very bad crutch IMO if used in this manner. It's human nature to relax when the pull buoy crutch is added. Legs are lifted, lower drag position, zero metabolic cost to do so and all seems good in the world right? Until you put that same muscle pattern/activation into play w/o a buoy and then it ain't so hot. In point of fact my go to thought when things get tough at the end of any hard set is '6 beat kick from the core' and that brings things back in harmony for me. When the kick starts to shut down so goes my rhythm. Just remember that a spastic kick isn't the goal though so don't go too far to the other end of the spectrum. One of the most exciting break throughs in locking in to the idea of holding water and achieving a great catch/pull through is creating torque through your core to resist against with a properly timed kick. You are attempting to create the same type of torque you generate in land based sports akin to throwing a baseball or hitting a golf ball. Tough part is you are face down in water! The kick is what makes this all possible IF the core is being used as the motor. No one had ever told me this was the same feel I was after and that is my fault for not swimming with swimmers and good instruction. Being a baseball player all this made perfect sense once a good coach got hold of me and explained this concept. One particular tip that helped and still helps me get good rhythm is to push off and start my kick slightly b/f stroke 1, but not b/f a proper streamline and break out are done. It's just a couple of flutters, maybe 2 to 3 kicks b/f that first pull on the break out. That sets my tone. Otherwise if I attempt to start stroking and kicking at the same time or worse pulling with no kick then I start off sketchy. Make sure you have a plantar flexed ankle, kick is powered from your core and play with the amplitude. Think tight streamlined kicks inside a bucket. Giant spaz kicks are great for adding drag, lifting your feet out of the water and helping you go nowhere fast:) Thank you for this great post vo2!!!! This all makes perfect sense. I can't wait to go to practice tonight with this all in my head!

One of the most exciting break throughs in locking in to the idea of holding water and achieving a great catch/pull through is creating torque through your core to resist against with a properly timed kick. Oh, I hear you, but this feeling is so elusive and fleeting for me. If only I could hold on to it. But I get tired or something distracts me (like a flip turn) and in a second it is all gone. I am working on it, though... everyday, or at least every time I have a chance to get into the pool but I am working against 40 years of bad habits and I know it is going to take some time. Any ideas/thoughts on how to hold on to that feeling would be so appreciated.