What is the average stroke count for a 25 yd free swim? Assuming no block start? I'm trying to count mine and was wondering where I should be aiming for.
I find DPS is something I have to keep addressing or it naturally disappears. When I keep it in the back of my mind I do about 17 per 25M at moderate pace while surfacing by the flags (since I have no business under the water). If I really concentrate I manage 14 but anything less is becoming a drill. When I get tired, lazy or loose focus my counts increase to 20 - 21.
Sculling drills and counting strokes helps me
True, but that isn't really working to improve the efficiency of your stroke, more like avoiding doing it. Now I fully understand that a lot of swimmers are having a great deal of success doing just that, (i.e. giving up distance swimming for distance SDK) and improving streamline has got to be one of the most fundamental things all swimmers should be working on, but while it is in-principle possible to get the stroke count down to 0 by improving streamline and SDK, that won't make your stroke any better! Oh heck I guess I am old fashioned, just SDK to victory and to heck with swimming on top of the water. :bolt:
I didn't say I wasn't going to work on the efficiency of my stroke; I am always doing that. But, with coaching (and now training side-by-side with my coach), I have improved my stroke count quite a bit from where we started three years ago. At this point, I don't know how much lower I can get my stroke count with further efficiency improvements alone. And, physical issues/ limitations come in to play when it comes to dryland for strengthening. (Rather than experimenting like I have done in the past- and, paying for it- I have an appointment with a PT who is a Masters swimmer, for a evaluation and dryland recommendations specific to my limitations.)
So, knowing I have an obviously bad streamline (some of it due to those physical limitations) and SDK (I have no excuse; it's just BAD), I feel this is where I can gain the most improvement. :agree: Oh yeah; my backstroke start can use a lot of improvement, as well:
http://youtu.be/8ocbQC7DH_I I'm the one in the white cap and black suit. This was a personal best of :40.45 (I'm not a backstroker), but my start and turn need a lot of improvement. (And, no, flipturns are not possible due to an inner ear disorder that causes disorientation and seasickness. Since I can't practice them, I don't want to take a chance that I can nail it in a race.)
For reference you guys that are doing 8-12 what are your times in the 50 and 100y free? Last night I was able to consistently get in the the 16-17 range without not stretching as much and lightly kicking. Honestly think the jammers helped a ton.
As an 8-stoke-per-length person... once upon a time (20 years ago in college), I was a 1:38 200 freestyler, and could manage a 22 for the 50, and I think I hit 46.high for the 100. I haven't raced those in a long time. Working out SCY these days, I can usually manage 1:15 as a base, and occasionally 1:10 base for a challenge set that's not too long.
And yes, 8 stokes is counting each arm as one. For me, I have a pretty good pull-out, and will usually take the first stroke a couple yards past the flags. My 50-meter LCM stroke count is around 22. So that's 8 strokes for the first 25 yards, and 14 for the last 30 yards. If my stroke rate is consistent, that suggests I'm getting 7.9 yards off the wall.
-Rick
My 50-meter LCM stroke count is around 22.
That's pretty exceptional. I struggle to get under 30 for a 50 long course. Typically I think I'm around 35 or so in normal swimming.
Backstroke 1-2 SPL less than freestyle, at comparable (e.g. race) levels of effort.
Thanks, guys, for your response. I was just curious, because my stroke count in the backstroke portion of yesterday's race 400 IM averaged 2 strokes more than my freestyle count. Both were too high; 23 for backstroke and 21 for freestyle (open turns on both strokes and poor underwaters, as I needed air :drowning:). In a typical training session, by count is 18-19 for backstroke and 15-16 for freestyle. Improving my underwater streamline and SDK should get those counts down.
Elite swimmers are 8-9 strokes per length SCY in a 500 free
No way. Here's a video from 2009 NCAAs. I looked at a few different swimmers and 11-13 seems more typical.
www.youtube.com/watch
...from 2009 NCAAs. I looked at a few different swimmers and 11-13 seems more typical.
Agree. I have watched the University team here train and 11-13 is very common. I don't think I have ever seen
Improving my underwater streamline and SDK should get those counts down.
True, but that isn't really working to improve the efficiency of your stroke, more like avoiding doing it. Now I fully understand that a lot of swimmers are having a great deal of success doing just that, (i.e. giving up distance swimming for distance SDK) and improving streamline has got to be one of the most fundamental things all swimmers should be working on, but while it is in-principle possible to get the stroke count down to 0 by improving streamline and SDK, that won't make your stroke any better! Oh heck I guess I am old fashioned, just SDK to victory and to heck with swimming on top of the water. :bolt:
Here's a video of Phelps in the 500 free where he tops out at 11 SPL.
http://youtu.be/S4djknQieXI
Osterber's stroke counts are amazing! Sun Yang takes 27 in LCM.
