This thread is in response to Jim Thorton's thread about his AA time being disallowed.I think that if a swimmer swims in a USMS sanctioned meet and that the time gets to the "official" Top Ten list that it should count.Otherwise one could go back and check the length of ,say the Amarillo pool from the first Masters Nationals and if it was 1 cm short disallow the swims.There must be a statute of limitations and I think it should be when the official TT times are posted.
Chris, I don't agree with requiring measurements of pools for the Top 10
I can only say that it appears that a majority of USMS members disagree with you on that score.
I honestly don't quite know what to make of the double standard here. Many of the same people who say that USMS takes TT too seriously also routinely raise a huge stink about it. Which is it?
Obviously I don't get a fair sampling because people email me about problems with TT a lot, but all the evidence I see is that many people take TT very seriously indeed, and insist on standards. Those who don't possibly shouldn't get their tails twisted in a knot about it.
That's not to say that people don't have a right to get frustrated with snafus. I just think the argument that TTs aren't important enough to bother with measurements is invalid based on the evidence I'm seeing.
So what am I missing with that logic?
Bottom line, a WR or AR from the meet should be stricken a Top 10 should not.
One problem though: there are MANY records that are not discovered until well after the meet, for whatever reason. This happens pretty much every season. If you don't measure at the meet then you'll lose those records. As bad as Jim feels about losing an AA ranking, imagine how much worse it would be to lose an AR/WR.
For this reason, I can't see how you can have different measurement standards for TT and records. I think either you don't require measurements for either or you require for both.
USA-S and FINA do just that, though. But from what I can see every single solution to this measurement issue has flaws: USMS, USA-S and FINA, probably others too. If it were an easy problem it would have been solved by now.
But I will tell you: if the House of Delegates decide that measurements aren't needed for TT then Records & Tabulation will certainly adhere to the "will of the people." What we're not going to do is ignore rules that we don't like or that are difficult to implement.
Chris, I don't agree with requiring measurements of pools for the Top 10
I can only say that it appears that a majority of USMS members disagree with you on that score.
I honestly don't quite know what to make of the double standard here. Many of the same people who say that USMS takes TT too seriously also routinely raise a huge stink about it. Which is it?
Obviously I don't get a fair sampling because people email me about problems with TT a lot, but all the evidence I see is that many people take TT very seriously indeed, and insist on standards. Those who don't possibly shouldn't get their tails twisted in a knot about it.
That's not to say that people don't have a right to get frustrated with snafus. I just think the argument that TTs aren't important enough to bother with measurements is invalid based on the evidence I'm seeing.
So what am I missing with that logic?
Bottom line, a WR or AR from the meet should be stricken a Top 10 should not.
One problem though: there are MANY records that are not discovered until well after the meet, for whatever reason. This happens pretty much every season. If you don't measure at the meet then you'll lose those records. As bad as Jim feels about losing an AA ranking, imagine how much worse it would be to lose an AR/WR.
For this reason, I can't see how you can have different measurement standards for TT and records. I think either you don't require measurements for either or you require for both.
USA-S and FINA do just that, though. But from what I can see every single solution to this measurement issue has flaws: USMS, USA-S and FINA, probably others too. If it were an easy problem it would have been solved by now.
But I will tell you: if the House of Delegates decide that measurements aren't needed for TT then Records & Tabulation will certainly adhere to the "will of the people." What we're not going to do is ignore rules that we don't like or that are difficult to implement.
