How do you folks feel about persons who misrepresent him/her self in this manner? These are from Heat 1 for each event recent swim meet.
1500 Free SCM
Seed Time - Time
45:00.00 - 25:50.75
40:00.00 - 26:08.92
45:00.00 - 29:57.58
45:00.00 - 20:52.58
400 Free SCM
Seed Time - Time
15:00.00 - 7:26.23
800 Free SCM
Seed Time - Time
21:00.00 - 13:53.86
20:25.00 - 16:42.46
What % error in seed time would represent sandbag behavior?
All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again.
U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - No sandbagging: It's the law
Look, if it makes it easier for you to rationalize sandbagging by telling me I have my trunks in a bunch over this, I am fine with that. The reality is that some of your fellow Masters swimmers don't particularly like it.
But there are all kinds of things in masters meets that are annoying. I often have to swim next to either REALLY fast, really young or male swimmers in the fastest heat of my best event at meets in my LMSC. My last two zone meets I had to swim in the lane next to a 23 year old woman who went somewhere in the vicinity of a 2:15 for a 200 breaststroke. I (at 46) can manage somewhere around a 2:40. Do I like watching her kick my ass? Not really, but I can't let that affect my race.
I often end up swimming in other meets with a heat of 4 men and maybe one other woman. Not ideal. But workable. In masters we rarely have the luxury of a perfectly seeded heat!
My last two zone meets I had to swim in the lane next to a 23 year old woman who went somewhere in the vicinity of a 2:15 for a 200 breaststroke. I (at 46) can manage somewhere around a 2:40. Do I like watching her kick my ass? Not really, but I can't let that affect my race.
Hmmm... Maybe I have a future as a motivational swimmer. People could pay me to swim in their meets, give me seed times to match theirs so we swim in adjoining lanes, then they can handily beat me. (These days I'd be happy with a 2:40 200 free.) :D
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I understand that you need to swim your own race. I get that. But it is hardly a "race" when you are lapped by the swimmer in the next lane because he intentionally sandbagged his time and is seeded in the wrong heat.I get that. But, even in perfectly seeded heats, people can be legitimately faster or slower than their times or playing around with different race strategies. Further ...
On 50s, let's be honest, there's really not much of a strategy or much time to contemplate what your heatmates are doing
On 100s, you might have a little more time to react to another swimmer's strategy, but, by the time you do, the race is probably over
I will give you that, possibly in the 200 free at Nationals, you'll have enough depth of swimmers to create heats where you can legitimately race & pace against multiple swimmers; in the IMs and the strokes, the time differentials between lane 4 and lane 8 are usually so large that each swimmer is, at best, really racing against 1 or maybe 2 swimmers ... but they are often on the other side of the pool where you can't see them anyway
On 400s and above, it is exceedingly rare in Masters that you have enough time parity between multiple swimmers in the same race to really create race & pace conditions across the heat.
I just think too many people are getting their swim trunks in a bunch over this issue. And, while I don't sandbag as a routine or even frequent practice, I have done it.
My (probably not) last word on the subject is this: if you are truly so concerned about what the other swimmers in your heat are going to do, then you can easily find out what you should expect them to do (see times database, study past meet results, talk with other swimmers, etc.) and fully negate any supposed impact their anomalous swim will have on your mindset.
The sprinters can make do with a 4 or 6 lane pool (since, of course, their events don't take any time so it doesn't matter how many heats
Pay no attention to the sandbaggers in our midst, put your big boy/girl suit & goggles on, and get your head back in your own lane.
From reading this thread, the sprinters don't seem to be the worst sandbaggers so we should get the fastest pools!
+1
When I use a (perfectly legal) split request, I put in an actual "estimated" final time and advise people in adjacent lanes what I am doing. It's hard for me to believe they're traumatized by it.
