Seeding - Seed Time vs Actual Time

The 1,650 + 1,000 + 500 + 400 IM would be my choices for off site events also!!! It would shorten the time of the day meet quite a bit.

See you in Indy? We can discuss entry times offline ;) You guys should both sandbag the 1650 and aim for Heat 1 lanes 4 & 5.

I know I elided your smiley, but for some events a postal-like setup (or at least a "satellite" meet setup) might be a good idea. Here in Illinois, the distance events for the state meet (1000 or 1650 on alternating years) are held the afternoon/evening before the rest of the weekend's swims. Holding two or three small regional distance meets around the state at (approximately?) the same time would mean some people could travel less (or at least save on the cost of an extra night in a hotel). You might be able to open up the distance events to more swimmers as well, or push the 400IM out to those satellite meets. The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. Just think. It will allow the sandbaggers to bag more sand, or Gull to implement his free-lanes-for-all program, or pwb to retire with the profits from his lane-upgrade program. :D Hadn't thought about the satellite technology idea - it might work for national meets too and allow more people to participate. Guess i agree with gobears too, that is, swim your event and don't worry about what else is going down in your heat or elsewhere.

Hadn't thought about the satellite technology idea - it might work for national meets too and allow more people to participate I think it sucks. It's called a "meet" not a "disperse."

You've crossed a redline here. I agree with Kirk. But, since we're talking about seed times and crazy ideas like satellite "meets," why not just: dispense with the idea of separated events schedule 4 events for the meet and each person enters their times for whatever the he** they're going to swim in that event, e.g., I want to swim 100 fly in the 1st event, so I enter my time Jeff Commings wants to swim 100 ***, so, of course, he enters a time that's much faster than my 100 fly Mr. Octagenarian wants to swim a 50 free and he enters a time slower than both of us Sort by time, seed it and go Part of the fun of the meet will be that no one actually has to declare what actual stroke & distance their time corresponds to until they get on the block (quick whisper to the timer) This might be challenging for officials, but they need more excitement in their lives anyhow Alternately, for those swimmer-phobes who want to relegate the vaunted distance swimmers to separate meets, I could live with this idea with the following stipulations: The distance swimmers get the biggest and fastest pool (since, clearly, people supporting this idea just want to get in and get out the event and not take the time to savor the experience) The sprinters can make do with a 4 or 6 lane pool (since, of course, their events don't take any time so it doesn't matter how many heats there are) Now, of course, I'm being quite tongue-in-cheek here ... as I assume others are on this whole topic of sandbagging ... wasn't the #1 mantra our age group coaches drummed into our heads to "swim your own race?" Pay no attention to the sandbaggers in our midst, put your big boy/girl suit & goggles on, and get your head back in your own lane. I agree 100%! :applaud: :bow: You've become quite the comedian lately, and I think it's working. Keep up the good work PWB! :bow:

On 400s and above, it is exceedingly rare in Masters that you have enough time parity between multiple swimmers in the same race to really create race & pace conditions across the heat. except for our 500 in greensboro. where there were 6 national champions (from that very meet) in the water at the same darn time and within 2secs of everyone at the 450 flip!!! p.s. i still want a do over on that one!

except for our 500 in greensboro. where there were 6 national champions (from that very meet) in the water at the same darn time and within 2secs of everyone at the 450 flip!!! p.s. i still want a do over on that one!I know, but, in all my years of Masters swimming, that was a rarity ... a very beautiful and wonderful rarity. Most of the time, even with so many people seeded so close, the results don't pan out. I guess my (*certainly not last*) view on this is this: in a pool, once someone is more than 2-3 seconds ahead of you, they're generally gone from your field of vision for much of the race. Also, at least for me, I can never see anyone besides the two lanes next to me, so what most of the people do in a heat never comes into my consciousness.

Has Kurt Dickson weighed in on this thread yet? Nope...I'm told he feels strongly both ways.:)

I know, but, in all my years of Masters swimming, that was a rarity I agree. In masters swimming you definitely shouldn't count on having a race with anyone else. It's nice when it pans out, but it doesn't happen that much--especially in the longer races. I'll bet you that even at Nationals in the 1650 it's rare to have a heat where everyone finishes within 30 seconds of each other.

What % error in seed time would represent sandbag behavior?