Seeding - Seed Time vs Actual Time

:agree: with Joel's +1 - it's easy to look up past performances to flush out a sandbagger. Like I mentioned, there are folks who do it all the time, regardless of the distance. Someone might be motivated by either crushing the competition or trying to keep up with faster folks to get a better time. I do my best to be concerned with my time at the end of the race.

I think it sucks. It's called a "meet" not a "disperse." Let's see here... sanctioning, officiating, timing, pool measurements, split requests, top ten, records... nope, no problems with this swim-anywhere plan! Proceed! :chug:

I think the bottom line is by sandbagging you are putting your interests over the interests of the meet as a whole. Most meet directors who opine on this topic don't seem real keen on sandbagging and that tells me all I need to know.

...or push the 400IM out to those satellite meets.You've crossed a redline here. I think it sucks. It's called a "meet" not a "disperse." I agree with Kirk. But, since we're talking about seed times and crazy ideas like satellite "meets," why not just: dispense with the idea of separated events schedule 4 events for the meet and each person enters their times for whatever the he** they're going to swim in that event, e.g., I want to swim 100 fly in the 1st event, so I enter my time Jeff Commings wants to swim 100 ***, so, of course, he enters a time that's much faster than my 100 fly Mr. Octagenarian wants to swim a 50 free and he enters a time slower than both of us Sort by time, seed it and go Part of the fun of the meet will be that no one actually has to declare what actual stroke & distance their time corresponds to until they get on the block (quick whisper to the timer) This might be challenging for officials, but they need more excitement in their lives anyhow Alternately, for those swimmer-phobes who want to relegate the vaunted distance swimmers to separate meets, I could live with this idea with the following stipulations: The distance swimmers get the biggest and fastest pool (since, clearly, people supporting this idea just want to get in and get out the event and not take the time to savor the experience) The sprinters can make do with a 4 or 6 lane pool (since, of course, their events don't take any time so it doesn't matter how many heats there are) Now, of course, I'm being quite tongue-in-cheek here ... as I assume others are on this whole topic of sandbagging ... wasn't the #1 mantra our age group coaches drummed into our heads to "swim your own race?" Pay no attention to the sandbaggers in our midst, put your big boy/girl suit & goggles on, and get your head back in your own lane.

I understand that you need to swim your own race. I get that. But it is hardly a "race" when you are lapped by the swimmer in the next lane because he intentionally sandbagged his time and is seeded in the wrong heat.

Look, if it makes it easier for you to rationalize sandbagging by telling me I have my trunks in a bunch over this, I am fine with that. The reality is that some of your fellow Masters swimmers don't particularly like it.

Hmmm... Maybe I have a future as a motivational swimmer. People could pay me to swim in their meets, give me seed times to match theirs so we swim in adjoining lanes, then they can handily beat me. (These days I'd be happy with a 2:40 200 free.) :D Skip lol. My freestyle is nothing to write home about! Forgot to mention that one of the men that has often been in my 200 br heat is David Guthrie - who is not only a big guy but is smoking fast. Talk about having to swim your own race...

I sent an e-mail to the USMS Rules Committee response as follows: Article 104.5.5(11), page 35, addresses this issue. Article 104 governs national championship meets and is “Recommended for all other championship meets when possible” (see parenthetical phrase below the title of article 104). However, it is not required for all other championship meets. If used at an “other championship” meet, the LMSC would need to make a decision to use championship rules in article 104 and announce such in the meet information. As you can see from the text of 104.5.5(11), this issue has to be resolved as part of the seeding process. Except for 102.13.14, there are no penalties for entering a time that is much faster or much slower than the resulting final time. 102.13.14 only addresses a swimmer who misrepresents a seed time causing significant delay of the meet (swims significantly slower than the seed time). Rules in Part 1 can be enhanced, i.e. rule changes can be proposed, during the next rules year which is 2014. Only emergency rule changes to Part 1 will be considered in 2013. Kathy Casey, Chair USMS Rules Committee