Dual Meets

I have really fond memories of dual meets. You're really competing as a team, all pulling for each other, and the energy is very different. I'd love to see Masters dual meets!

I agree with above. Maybaedifferent word phrasing?

Paul, I wonder whether you are misunderstanding something. Are you sure you are not thinking of "dual-sanctioned meets" that are sanctioned by both USMS and by USA Swimming? Years ago I believe this was not allowed. But it is today. Appendix B of the Rule Book even has a section about it: "Dual Sanctioned Events," beginning on page 129. If you read that you'll see that a dual-sanctioned, "Combined meet" can have swimmers from both organizations seeded in the same heats. The only separation of the two organizations is in the warmup lanes - USMS and USA swimmers can't share the same warmup lane (they must be separated by a divider such as a lane line). If you have more questions, give me a call at 941-556-6279. Thanks Anna....I am going back to my two contacts that told me know and will clarify as i was very specific in wanting to host a dual meet against another team here in AZ and was told it wasn't allowed. We have actually done a couple of dual sanctioned events and will be hosting the Grand Canyon State Games this summer which will be a USMS "observed" event...so I think I have those categories figured out!!

the Grand Canyon State Games this summer which will be a USMS "observed" event...so I think I have those categories figured out!!Paul (Mr. I have those categories figured out). USA Swimming has "observed" events (actually “observed swims”). USMS has “recognized” events. Either way, I believe what you are looking to sanction, a dual meet between 2 USMS clubs, should be sanctionable. I also believe what is causing some confusion is rule 401.2 about eligibility to participate, which does not specifically allow restrictions for 2 clubs.

There was a dual meet between Lake Washington Masters (a PNA workout group) and their affiliated USA Swimming club, WAVE Aquatics, last year. I see the results in the USMS database for the masters swimmers, so I'm assuming it was sanctioned. In any event, I think dual meets are a great idea. Is there some requirement in USMS that all meets must be open to all USMS members? This would be the only reason I can think of that would forbid dual meets. We had a discussion of this very example at the NW Zone meeting at the NW Zone meet last weekend. Walt Reid brought up this particular meet as the example. I'm not sure if it was sanctioned, or recognized, but however they worked it, it was just between the two of them. Our USA team is going to be holding a developmental meet sometime in May, and the idea we have is to get a dual sanction USMS/USAS completed for it. The USA team is going to be using this for their younger, and less experienced swimmers, and this would also be perfect for most of our masters group as well. In the works in Wenatchee. :)

Paul (Mr. I have those categories figured out). USA Swimming has "observed" events (actually “observed swims”). USMS has “recognized” events. Either way, I believe what you are looking to sanction, a dual meet between 2 USMS clubs, should be sanctionable. I also believe what is causing some confusion is rule 401.2 about eligibility to participate, which does not specifically allow restrictions for 2 clubs. Thanks Rob...guessing you know me well enough to recognize that "I" have nothing figured out but am at least smart enough to have someone who's really good at it doing it for me (Erin, meet director for our nationals and our team manager)!! Cool...now we can get moving on taking those pesky Phoenix Swim Club masters down! Big time beer bet on this one baby!!

Thanks Rob...guessing you know me well enough to recognize that "I" have nothing figured out but am at least smart enough to have someone who's really good at it doing it for me (Erin, meet director for our nationals and our team manager)!! Cool...now we can get moving on taking those pesky Phoenix Swim Club masters down! Big time beer bet on this one baby!! You definitely need to have a beer chug :chug: relay event at the end of the meet, after all the sanctioning stuff is over with. :) Just to crown the real champs of the meet!

Paul, I wonder whether you are misunderstanding something. Are you sure you are not thinking of "dual-sanctioned meets" that are sanctioned by both USMS and by USA Swimming? Years ago I believe this was not allowed. But it is today. Appendix B of the Rule Book even has a section about it: "Dual Sanctioned Events," beginning on page 129. If you read that you'll see that a dual-sanctioned, "Combined meet" can have swimmers from both organizations seeded in the same heats. The only separation of the two organizations is in the warmup lanes - USMS and USA swimmers can't share the same warmup lane (they must be separated by a divider such as a lane line). If you have more questions, give me a call at 941-556-6279.

There was a dual meet between Lake Washington Masters (a PNA workout group) and their affiliated USA Swimming club, WAVE Aquatics, last year. I see the results in the USMS database for the masters swimmers, so I'm assuming it was sanctioned. In any event, I think dual meets are a great idea. Is there some requirement in USMS that all meets must be open to all USMS members? This would be the only reason I can think of that would forbid dual meets.

Where did you get the information that dual meets were not allowed? The 2012 Rule Book defines a dual meet as between 2 clubs (xi) and explains scoring (p 26).