Greensboro Nats - Who's In?

50 free 50 fly

I'm sure my email was exceedingly charming. :) I personally have little interest in learning how to measure a pool, worrying about what measuring implement is acceptable, and fretting over compiling and submitting paperwork. So I opt not to attend meets that won't be accepted by USMS. I'm not planning on Worlds either for that and various reasons. I hope the rule is changed though. I'd like to attend Canadian Nats some day. I don't know how you worded your email but the response you got from Montreal said it costs $1000 to do the measurements required by FINA and he is not willing to pay for that for every day of the meet. He also said measuring tape doesn't meet his measuring criteria and there were no issues at a meet he hosted in 2003. I think he would have had no issues if you had explained that you would bring the tape and make the measurements, that tape meets USMS measuring criteria, and new USMS rules require measuring every day for meets with a movable bulkhead. Most meet directors outside of the US will not go out of their way to buy measuring equipment but would have no issues letting you make the measurements required and sign whatever paperwork you need or assist in measuring if required. For anyone who wants to go to Canadian Nationals this year explain exactly what you want to do and make it easy for them to say yes.

I'm sure my email was exceedingly charming. :) I personally have little interest in learning how to measure a pool, worrying about what measuring implement is acceptable, and fretting over compiling and submitting paperwork. So I opt not to attend meets that won't be accepted by USMS. I'm not planning on Worlds either for that and various reasons. I hope the rule is changed though. I'd like to attend Canadian Nats some day. I suppose this won't be an issue for 2014 Worlds since both LCM pools there are wall-to-wall.

My dad, my daughter, and I all plan to be there. If you're planning the 1650, I'll be sure I'm there early enough on Thursday to count or just watch.

We will look at that issue separately. Personally I think the international thing has a better chance of passing if it is decoupled from the USA-S issue. It is counterintuitive that a FINA WR is not eligible for USMS top ten or records, this is more a matter of respecting other masters NGBs and FINA masters standards. However, FINA doesn't recognize anything done at a USA-S meet. The committee will look at domestic measurements more generally and decide what (if any) rule proposals to make. But of course, LMSCs can also propose rule changes so if the officers in your LMSC feel strongly about this issue then I encourage your LMSC to submit something. I was not thinking so much about FINA recognizing anything because we all know they only recognize swims in member masters sanctioned meets. I was thinking the USMS Top Ten when swimmers swim in US Opens, US-A Nationals, Grand Prix where they really can't measure between sessions. The international meets and USA meets seem to follow doing the same thing with regards to not doing measurements after sessions in bulkhead pools. The only thing to me that makes this weird is if we changed the rule to let international rules apply to USMS Top Ten, then USMS would have tighter, stricter rules of pool measurement for our own sanctioned meets for inclusion into USMS Top Ten and I honestly don't know how the House of Delegates would view this. Another proposal would be for USMS to follow FINA and International guidelines of pool measurement and require what we did pre 2002. I am not sure how this would be accepted and we have been operating for the last 9 years doing multiple measurements and we may not want to change. My LMSC is lucky because the 3 SCM meets we host are all in fixed wall pools. I think we would welcome a change to accept the FINA international rule for bulkhead pools because across the Detroit river in Windsor Canada they are building a state of the art 50 meter pool and a 25 meter pool housed in a new Natatorium.

It is. This is definitely worth checking on. We can certainly make the suggestion that the pool be measured, but I'd hate to be the "Ugly American" and tell them how they should be running their meet. There is likely no need for the Canadians to do anything differently. As a guess, I'd think the procedure would be Find out from USMS what information is needed in addition to what is already available, and how to communicate it to USMS. This means finding a real, live USMS-affiliated human being to help interpret the USMS rules, and guide you through the process. Obtain any needed equipment to make any additional measurements & learn how to make them. Convince the real, live human being identified in step 1 that you know what you're doing. Once at the meet, contact the meet officials & let them know what you're doing. As Arthur suggests, the Canadians probably won't have any problem with it, as long as you don't impose any additional cost on them, or any additional work. If you're willing to make the measurements yourself, they should be fine with that. I don't know if it's plausible to do USMS-acceptable measurements yourself. It might take special training, or require expensive equipment, or take hours of work. I dunno. If you can identify someone knowledgeable on the subject, that would help.

I don't know if it's plausible to do USMS-acceptable measurements yourself. To be honest, I don't think they should allow anyone who is competing to do the measurements, even if properly trained. It's too much of a conflict of interest. If the pool ends up being too short you might be tempted to say "close enough." You mention the Canadian meet staff wouldn't need to do anything differently, but they would if the pool turns out to be short. They'd have to delay the meet and move the bulkhead. Either that or tell you to take a hike! :canada::bolt:

Any of you that don't use forum obliterating childish fonts that fly into CLT and don't look me up will be more dead to me than pwb, the great CLT avoider. We'll be driving in. Besides, I have no intentions of ever looking you up.

Find out from USMS what information is needed in addition to what is already available, and how to communicate it to USMS. This means finding a real, live USMS-affiliated human being to help interpret the USMS rules, and guide you through the process.The certification form and process are readily available on the USMS web site; at www.usms.org/.../gto_rectab_pool_measurement.pdf I being a real live human can guide you through the process, but it is pretty self explanatory. To be honest, I don't think they should allow anyone who is competing to do the measurements, even if properly trained. It's too much of a conflict of interest. If the pool ends up being too short you might be tempted to say "close enough." The procedures state “confirmed by a responsible person” which can be a swimmer. I suggest that most folks associated with the meet would have some conflict of interest; meet host, facilities manager, or swimmer. If you're willing to make the measurements yourself, they should be fine with that. .The meet host may be amenable, if you ask real nice. But don’t press the point and become the Kirk’s Ugly American. I think the best solution is to let Chris push for a rule change that will allow USMS to accept what the rest of the world condones.

Probably a few are wondering about these options so I will chime in....Thanks for the tips. CLT is now off my list. Any of you that ... that fly into CLT and don't look me up will be more dead to me than pwb, the great CLT avoider.In my defense, I've never actually left CLT ... those rocking chairs and moving sidewalks keep me plenty amused on my layovers.