A swimmer may never get a second chance for a WR and to have one thrown out would be more than merely annoying.
Undoubtedly, but USMS wouldn't be the one doing the "throwing." FINA evaluates applications for WRs, and both that were done by a USMS member in the Canada meet were accepted. The swims by USMS members from the meet will also be submitted for consideration for FINA top ten.
To answer rodent on the pool measurement:
It is ironic that the USMS pool measurement rules are so strict, yet the VERIFICATION is really a joke. When I was TT recorder for NT, I measured SMU's indoor pool and got the signatures. But it is SO EASY for anyone to LIE about the measurements and write down, wily-nily, anything they want and then simply get the signatures. The form does NOT state that the measurements have to be from an "official", simply 2 people! It is, like entering times for USMS nationals, ultimately On Your Honor!!! There is no EVIDENCE of the measurement - simply a handwritten notation. You don't have to attach something like a computer printout that cannot be altered, or something that elimates human error or...well, you get the idea.
I think that answer's rodent's question. But I emphasize I think those that do request measurements have been honest - I don't think anyone really has lied about them! In fact, the masters swimmers got a big thumbs down after the 2008 TAMU pool measurement at the Texas Senior circuit meet. Recall there were swimmers who made OT cuts, and that put USA in a turmoil over what to do about that!!! (they let those swimmers enter OT at the OT cut times).
Back to the top ten SCM 2011 - I would like to talk about my favorite subject, moi, and state that I am most proud of my 200 fly, not because it was fast, but because I showed up, did something outside my comfort zone, and actually swam CONTINUOSLY for 8 lengths of the pool. However, official chowsh says that I could have hung around on the wall, and then pushed off on my tummy and still been legal.
Undoubtedly, but USMS wouldn't be the one doing the "throwing." FINA evaluates applications for WRs, and both that were done by a USMS member in the Canada meet were accepted. The swims by USMS members from the meet will also be submitted for consideration for FINA top ten.
The 2011 FINA Top Ten are now available at www.fina.org and it looks like Chris is correct with both his statements USMS wouldn't be the one doing the "throwing" this statement is true.
"FINA evaluates applications for WRs, and both that were done by a USMS member in the Canada meet were accepted. This statement is true and Diane Uustal time in the 50 fly, which is .11 faster than what is shown in the National Top Ten is in as both a Top Ten time and a current World Record.
The swims by USMS members from the meet will also be submitted for consideration for FINA top ten. This statement is true. Jack Martin times in the 200 Free, 400 Free. 800 Free, and 1500 Free are all submitted in the 2011 FINA SCM Top Ten. Congratulations on the FINA Top Ten swims.
I am most proud of my 200 fly, not because it was fast, but because I showed up, did something outside my comfort zone, and actually swam CONTINUOSLY for 8 lengths of the pool. Great job! :cheerleader:
BTW, Leslie I ran into Madam Marie on the boardwalk today. She looked at my palm and told me that the planets were aligned against me and my 6, Top 10 Swims in Canada would not be recognized. Madam Marie is always right, so I guess my only recourse is to give up. Do you want me to ask her how you are going to do at Worlds? :bolt:
I'm not going to Worlds. But Chris has already said that he plans to take measurements, so that should help USMS swimmers have their times count here.
Undoubtedly, but USMS wouldn't be the one doing the "throwing." FINA evaluates applications for WRs, and both that were done by a USMS member in the Canada meet were accepted. The swims by USMS members from the meet will also be submitted for consideration for FINA top ten.
Thanks, Chris I forgot that FINA would accept Canada's times, but the times don't count for USMS record which are also hard to get. So my point is valid from that standpoint.
The 2011 FINA Top Ten are now available at www.fina.org and it looks like Chris is correct with both his statements USMS wouldn't be the one doing the "throwing" this statement is true.
"FINA evaluates applications for WRs, and both that were done by a USMS member in the Canada meet were accepted. This statement is true and Diane Uustal time in the 50 fly, which is .11 faster than what is shown in the National Top Ten is in as both a Top Ten time and a current World Record.
The swims by USMS members from the meet will also be submitted for consideration for FINA top ten. This statement is true. Jack Martin times in the 200 Free, 400 Free. 800 Free, and 1500 Free are all submitted in the 2011 FINA SCM Top Ten. Congratulations on the FINA Top Ten swims.
Thanks Frank I forgot that FINA had a Top 10! I guess I won't have to move to Canada after all!
To answer rodent on the pool measurement:
It is ironic that the USMS pool measurement rules are so strict, yet the VERIFICATION is really a joke. When I was TT recorder for NT, I measured SMU's indoor pool and got the signatures. But it is SO EASY for anyone to LIE about the measurements and write down, wily-nily, anything they want and then simply get the signatures. The form does NOT state that the measurements have to be from an "official", simply 2 people! It is, like entering times for USMS nationals, ultimately On Your Honor!!! There is no EVIDENCE of the measurement - simply a handwritten notation. You don't have to attach something like a computer printout that cannot be altered, or something that elimates human error or...well, you get the idea.
I think that answer's rodent's question. But I emphasize I think those that do request measurements have been honest - I don't think anyone really has lied about them! In fact, the masters swimmers got a big thumbs down after the 2008 TAMU pool measurement at the Texas Senior circuit meet. Recall there were swimmers who made OT cuts, and that put USA in a turmoil over what to do about that!!! (they let those swimmers enter OT at the OT cut times).
Back to the top ten SCM 2011 - I would like to talk about my favorite subject, moi, and state that I am most proud of my 200 fly, not because it was fast, but because I showed up, did something outside my comfort zone, and actually swam CONTINUOSLY for 8 lengths of the pool. However, official chowsh says that I could have hung around on the wall, and then pushed off on my tummy and still been legal.
Congratrulations, I think everyone should swim a 200 Fly once in thier life.:bow:
I'm not going to Worlds. But Chris has already said that he plans to take measurements, so that should help USMS swimmers have their times count here.
Leslie, it's too bad you are not going to Worlds. Madam Marie said that you would have set two WR's and won four events there! Don't tell anyone I told you, I don't want Madam Marie to put a hex on me! :canada:
Jim swam very very well.
He already said what he thought above: He wishes that R&T had voted to propose an exemption for Canadian Nationals, and believes the USMS rule is unduly demanding and persnickety.
He has not had any times thrown out for failure to measure. He has lost some times when meets were de-recognized or when meets advertised to be recognized were not. And he lost times swimming in an "open" event in an Ohio meet when the referee mistakenly told him the times would count for TT.
The person who was really penalized by the failure to measure was Diane Uustal who lost a slew of USMS records as a result. I believe Kelly Parker Palace in my age group also lost some AA times.
The above are examples of the kind of things that changes to the regulations can limit. Many swimmers have lost TT swims, but losing a USMS record or a WR, is a big deal. A swimmer may never get a second chance for a WR and to have one thrown out would be more than merely annoying.
I think that USMS should give full faith and credit to the results of major international meets swum in accordance with FINA rules and those of the jurisdiction that held the meet.
As far as the rules for pool measurements, I think they should be simple and easy to understand. I believe they should mirror USAS regulations and FINA regulations whenever possible. Meet directors and facility directors will be familiar with FINA and USAS rules because far more meets are held by those organizations.
I think strict pool measurement requirements should be limited to WR and USMS records. There are three Top 10s published every year and with 5 year USMS age groups there are too many swims to require strict verification. If the pool was measured w/i a reasonable time of the TT swim, either before, or after, the result should stand.
If we make the regulations too complex, we will end up tripping ourselves up.
BTW, Leslie I ran into Madam Marie on the boardwalk today. She looked at my palm and told me that the planets were aligned against me and my 6, Top 10 Swims in Canada would not be recognized. Madam Marie is always right, so I guess my only recourse is to give up. Do you want me to ask her how you are going to do at Worlds? :bolt:
