Is this type and amount of weightlifting enough?

The big factor for me is that I have such limited time to train. If I'm lucky and can stick to my routine I can probably do some form of training 6-7 times per week, for about an hour, all in. Bearing that in mind, I'm just not going to do heavy weights, because as a 200 breastroker I need to be getting my heart rate up when I do land training. I find that complexes or weight-based circuits give me broad conditioning which includes some strength (but I'm happy not to be as strong as I could be in order to be fitter all round). If I was a full time swimmer, I'm sure that i'd be doing heavy weights for strength and power, and using other forms of training for other forms of fitness but I'm not...

That's nice, Paul. Jazz, you forgot "and I'm faster at 50 than you were in your prime but sadly my pecs don't look as good as yours" :)

My take: With swimming, any exercise that involves the shoulders should be done with more caution than compared to non swimmers, especially with high yardage types. Some exercises (e.g. bench) generally might present greater risk, but this may not be the case for all swimmers since God made everbody is different. So you have to play it by ear. Agreed. I'm generally not a fan of the bench for swimmers, just because most of us already have overdeveloped chest and anterior shoulder, which the bench can exacerbate. Nevertheless, many swimmers incorporate it with success. If you ensure you're using proper form and taking care of your shoulders, bench away! But personally I'd go with the standing press (AKA military press) as the main pressing movement. Definitely add some pull ups as well. Also, Lui, for how long have you been lifting in this class? I'm a fan of bodyweight exercise like all variations of pushups, pullup, squats, burpees, core exercises etc and if you do that in a circuit you also get a good conditioning. You can also add kettlebells, weights, dumbbells, heavy bag training, stretch cord. I can recommend a good book called Infinite Intensity: www.rosstraining.com/infiniteintensity.html I've been training this style for several years and now saw a report that the German swim team are doing exactly these type of exercises and were really exhausted doing them. BIG thumb for up this guy. I've used his methods before. Although they are mostly very low tech (DBs, sandbags,resistance bands and some homemade stuff) they are highly effective -- the guy himself has baffling strength and conditioning and managed to deadlift 500 pounds the first time he did the exercise seriously. RossTraining.com Compilation - 2003 through 2008 - YouTube. Worth watching for motivation.

1) Sit up, then put the weights down or 2) Have your spot take them This is definitely the proper way to do it, but I bet lots of people just extend their shoulders more and drop the dumbbells on the ground.

I am confused about this. I am saying I agree with you and the "facts" I presented are just what you said in this thread. Did you not say you have had lots of shoulder injuries? No shots being fired here. Lefty....just being a jerk and picking a fight, sorry! And fortunately I've only had one "acute" injury which was this poorly supervised lifting incident when I was a sophomore! Which brings me back to the point about "doing it correctly"...I admit to being jaded but I've simply traveled to much and seen far to many adult swimmers who train poorly (again IMHO). The classic case are the lack of doing drill work and if it's done rarely is it focused and properly executed (much in the same way kicking and recovery days are often approached/avoided). As much as we mock the Tri's there are a huge number of masters swimmers training based on daily/weekly yardage at the expense of form... improvement and when confronted they almost always acknowledge they know better but choose to ignore! For the average masters swimmer who is truly dedicated and willing to be supervised and "learn" the right supplemental weight training can certainly help them improve...and certainly for the high level competitive group its almost a must (although some of these folks are the worst offenders)...but for the majority of folks I've meet all over the country I think they would benefit far more from a program such as yoga to increase their flexibility rather than try and develop strength to perform body movements they aren't properly executing in the first place!

The thing that concerns me about doing bench with dumbbells is putting them on the ground on completion of the set. This, to me, seems like where the shoulders could be injured. 1) Sit up, then put the weights down or 2) Have your spot take them

Lefty....just being a jerk and picking a fight, sorry! And fortunately I've only had one "acute" injury which was this poorly supervised lifting incident when I was a sophomore! Which brings me back to the point about "doing it correctly"...I admit to being jaded but I've simply traveled to much and seen far to many adult swimmers who train poorly (again IMHO). The classic case are the lack of doing drill work and if it's done rarely is it focused and properly executed (much in the same way kicking and recovery days are often approached/avoided). As much as we mock the Tri's there are a huge number of masters swimmers training based on daily/weekly yardage at the expense of form... improvement and when confronted they almost always acknowledge they know better but choose to ignore! For the average masters swimmer who is truly dedicated and willing to be supervised and "learn" the right supplemental weight training can certainly help them improve...and certainly for the high level competitive group its almost a must (although some of these folks are the worst offenders)...but for the majority of folks I've meet all over the country I think they would benefit far more from a program such as yoga to increase their flexibility rather than try and develop strength to perform body movements they aren't properly executing in the first place! We agree 100%.

I also pretty badly injured myself doing overhead triceps extensions in college You know you're not supposed to bounce the weights off your head, right? (Come to think of it, this explains quite a lot!)

I think you have that exactly wrong, Paul. I think masters swimmers will be smart about lifting properly and that is why I would recommend it. It it the people you are getting your advise from don't think as much of masters swimmers as you would like to think. Don't worry, I am sure Marsh, Bush and "Dr. Kip" think you, personally, are totally awesome. In an effort to find common ground: considering your personal injury history, I too would probably stay away from the bench based on "risk reward." A) "I think masters swimmers will be smart about lifting properly and that is why I would recommend it." Damn...can't think of a response to someone with such as vast amount of experience traveling the country and coaching/training with a large cross section of these folks!! B) "It it the people you are getting your advise from don't think as much of masters swimmers as you would like to think"...again, have to tip my hat to you!! I keep forgetting you were part of those discussions all these years! And your correct.....especially that Marsh guy who just hosted some lame masters training camp...he thinks were all idiots! C) "Don't worry, I am sure Marsh, Bush and "Dr. Kip" think you, personally, are totally awesome"....you forgot...I'm just a "name dropper"...I've never actually met any of these people and those that have met me know I'm an ass! D) "In an effort to find common ground: considering your personal injury history, I too would probably stay away from the bench based on "risk reward." I've truly forgotten about your knack for getting almost all your facts wrong...but never let that get in the way of an attempt to fire off a good "shot"!

You know you're not supposed to bounce the weights off your head, right? (Come to think of it, this explains quite a lot!) It was working really well till we moved away from those rubber dumb bells to metal plates!!