Nutrition questions

I'm skeptical that a high fat diet like that is healthy. I know that low carb diets and Paleo are "en vogue" nowadays but who knows how healthy they really are. I never heard that Paleo is based on 60% fat though. I'm not sure that Paleo is, in fact, based on a 60% fat component. As I stated before, that 60% figure is from a computer generated analysis of what my wife and I actually eat in a day. Neither of us actually set out to eat a Paleo diet (that just happens to describe more or less what we do eat, except that unlike many Paleo adherents, we also eat dairy products and some legumes). If anything, the diet we set out to eat is more along the lines of the one advocated by the Weston A. Price Foundation. As far as health goes, and I'm sure we both agree that that is the primary consideration here, I'm more than 100 pounds lighter than I used to be 8-9 years ago when I followed a "heart-healthy," low-fat diet, I recently had a Berkeley Heart Lab analysis of my cholesterol done that showed all parameters in the "good to excellent range," and I lowered the dosage of the anti-hypertensive medication I have long taken by two-thirds. All this under a doctor's supervision, by the way.

As for protein shakes, one thing I think no one has mentioned is that the protein source in most is soy, and there are good reasons not to want to consume too much soy in your diet (if you can help it — like HFCS, it's everywhere these days). Incidentally, most of the soy consumed in Asia has been fermented, which is a very different thing.

Personally, I don't eat a lot of burgers, mainly because I don't eat wheat and what's the point of a burger without the bun? As a red-meat eater, though, I have to say I probably eat fewer overall calories from red meat now than in the past. That's because the meat I buy now is very expensive — hamburger $6.50/lb direct from the farmer; other cuts, much more — so I tend to eat far smaller portions. I do enjoy fries from time to time, but only those I make myself in the oven. Bottom line, I agree with you. You can't lose weight without reducing calories. Where I differ is that I believe you can cut calories without feeling starved all the time. There are calories, and then there are calories!

I think they sell Protien Shakes at Dairy Queen. I get one quite often after an evening practice, and they come in all sorts of flavors. I prefer, caramel, but often get cherry, strawberry, and sometimes peanut butter flavor. Yum!! :bliss:

Although I think that anyone who is overweight most likely does not eat mainly healthy foods. I doubt that anyone ever got overweight from eating too many veggies, fruit, whole grains, fish(like salmon) and lean meat. They most likely eat too much processed food and sugar. Long term only healthy food is what keeps people lean and cravings in check. There is a reason why some societies have mainly lean people and others have an obesity problem.

As for protein shakes, one thing I think no one has mentioned is that the protein source in most is soy, and there are good reasons not to want to consume too much soy in your diet (if you can help it — like HFCS, it's everywhere these days). Incidentally, most of the soy consumed in Asia has been fermented, which is a very different thing. Actually the most common source is by far whey which is derived from milk. Soy is probably also lower on the list than casein another milk derived product.

I'm not sure that Paleo is, in fact, based on a 60% fat component. As I stated before, that 60% figure is from a computer generated analysis of what my wife and I actually eat in a day. Neither of us actually set out to eat a Paleo diet (that just happens to describe more or less what we do eat, except that unlike many Paleo adherents, we also eat dairy products and some legumes). If anything, the diet we set out to eat is more along the lines of the one advocated by the Weston A. Price Foundation. As far as health goes, and I'm sure we both agree that that is the primary consideration here, I'm more than 100 pounds lighter than I used to be 8-9 years ago when I followed a "heart-healthy," low-fat diet, I recently had a Berkeley Heart Lab analysis of my cholesterol done that showed all parameters in the "good to excellent range," and I lowered the dosage of the anti-hypertensive medication I have long taken by two-thirds. All this under a doctor's supervision, by the way. I think the biggest issue with long term studies of diets is that they do not normalize for calories accurately. I have yet to see much convincing evidence that the reasons red meat eaters are less healthy is due to the red meat and not due to the likelihood that red meat eaters eat more total calories and lead less healthy lifestyles overall (e.g. if you eat a lot of burgers you probably also eat a lot of fries).

Protein shakes are controversial - nutrionists seem to indicate they aren't particlularly useful or needed despite all the claims by the companies that make them. Protein is essential to properly recover after a workout, but you can easly obtain the needed proteins and fats from a meal of natural foods. Some concerns about protein shakes were included in a article from Consumer Reports on this forum and referenced a few weeks back (search for it)::worms: Some shakes have been found to contain heavy metals that would not be good if consumed over time. Shake supplements can range in protein levels up to as much as 100g per serving. Your body can only digest 5-9 grams of protein per hour. The rest is then burned to produce glycogen, stored as fat, or excreted. The shakes add unaccounted for calories to your diet at such high levels of protein and much of the protein maybe wasted. Proteins and fats slow digestion and thus slow glycogen repalcement before, during and immediately after workouts. You may want to avoid protein until after the critical glycogen and electrolyte replacement is complete and then get the protein at meals from good lean sources - Salo's book on conditioning indicates about 6-20 g at the next recovery meal. Good lean sources of protein in natural foods are much less expensive - milk, yogurt, eggs, chicken, lean game meat, and range fed beef for instance. You can also get it from veggies, but need to be sure you get all of the required protein amino acids. These supplements are not controlled by the FDA like normal food an drink, there is a real need to carefully research and checkout what your are putting in your body, and you can't rely on the claims of the seller. Caveat emptor. Think the main benefit of protein shakes is it is the easiest way to get high amounts of protein with little overall calories and contrary to hints at it in this thread, calorie deficit is the key to weight loss. I recommend to those who are interested to research bodybuilding diets and cutting cycles. These people are basically 'competitive dieters' They all count calories, they all eat high protein diets, and they all feel lethargic, weaker, etc. after several weeks of dieting. Someone with very poor dietary habits who is very overweight can likely lose significant weight by just eating 'healthy foods' and not counting calories but this is unsustainable and given most people reading this thread are probably already active/health concious to some extent, the reality is, calorie deficit = fat loss, and calorie deficit = less energy, body entering a catabolic state, etc. etc. etc. obviously composing those calories out of quality nutritious foods is helpful but it is not the key to fat loss. calorie restriction is. Period.

People who lose weight from Paleo usually go from the average junk diet to paleo so they think it's Paleo that works while it's actually just the choice of better foods and the fact that they don't eat junk anymore. That is exactly it. It's the same reason people lose weight when they alter percentages of fat or carbs or whatever. The only way to lose weight it to eat less food than you normally do. It also helps if the food is whole and nutritious, because it's good fuel. I pretty much weigh the same amount as I did before I started swimming four years ago. It's is annoying as all get-out, but I do have significantly improved muscle tone in some places, and I have much better stamina than before, which helps energize me to be enraged when people say, "the weight just fell off as soon as I took up swimming!" :blah: The only success I ever had at losing weight came from logging everything I ate. At first I was counting calories, and trying to stop when I hit a certain number for the day, but eventually it made me more accountable for all those little "this doesn't count" snacks I ate, and made me more aware of the absolute density of foods like granola bars, energy bars and smoothies, which I had been treating as a light snack. I'm not ready to always be hungry again, so I habitually eat a lot to compensate for the calorie loss to swimming.

I think the CR article was a previous post by ElaineK, and it can be printed. I've used protein shakes for probalby 50 years, especially when pinched for time. Mine are whey and about 24g of protein per shake, so when i use them i cut the serving in half. Back in the day we also had the drink of astronauts "Tang" too, I suppose in case we wanted to orbit the pool instead of swim in it :). Never tried dairy queens protein shakes, but "Freshen Smoothies and Frozen Treats" actually sells them at a service area on the NJ Turnpike (driving on the NJ Turnpike is a legit sport) and they are good. Will check out DQ's too. should they be used as a staple in your normal diet? Protein shakes seem to be a major component of body building, weight lifting and their associated diets. Their use of protein and other supplements seems complex and carefully managed to me. And, this may not be a good model for the average athlete (esp. HS age) to follow without the required knowledge, experience or coaching that body builders employ. The levels of heavy metals cited in some of these protein shakes are a potential cause for concern. From my experience with drinking water quality and haz waste sites, EPA limits exposure to heavy metals because of toxicity from consumption. I don't recall if any of the metals found by CR are both toxic and also carcinogens, but possibly. Of course, like most substances, "it's the dose that counts". The more you ingest, the higher the dose, and the greater the risk. I don't think the CR article actually looked at the issues of dose and standards exceedance or at the issue of multiple sources (might you also be ingesting these substances from other sources too). Do you want these substances at any level in something you ingest? I don't. It would seem prudent, especially if you are using these shakes as a major diet component, and not just occaisonal supplement, to check out what's in them in addition to protein. While the FDA does not apparretly regulate the protein supplements sold, I think they regulate shakes sold commercially as foods by DQ and others.