Going faster without kicking?

Former Member
Former Member
Tried an interesting set tonight... did 10 50 frees on 45 seconds without kicking, just pulling. I've always been a poor freestyle kicker, but I didn't expect the following result... I was going just as fast as I would be WITH a kick for that rate of turnover (35/34s), but with much less effort. I found myself doing a bit more body rotation, I felt greater connectivity from my arms all the way down to my toes. I also found myself doing a deep straightarm catch (as opposed to my usual high elbow with the elbow withing a couple inches of the surface)... wasn't really trying to do something different, it just happened and I went with it. Has anyone else had a similar experience when they removed their kick from their freestyle? Does anyone have any idea about how to train my kick so it can contribute more effectively? I have a hunch that my kick may actually be counterproductive when I get tired, in that it doesn't help me go forward or gives a very poor return for the effort I put in... so maybe learning to freestyle kick in a way that syncs with my body rotation would be a way to start. (Not sure how to do that though, so ideas for learning rotation rhythm would be welcomed too.) Thanks in advance!
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Welcome to my world! I have the most awful kick. I had been working on a ton of kicking drills but nothing has helped. I would love an event where they would tie your ankles together, and you could only pull! I'll be reading this thread with great interest.
  • Tried an interesting set tonight... did 10 50 frees on 45 seconds without kicking, just pulling. Were you using a pull buoy or not? If you were using a buoy this isn't all that surprising, but if you were not then it is.
  • Use the big motor (arms) not the little motor (legs). The legs are not part of the body they are just an attachment. I'd be perfectly happy if everyone thought this way. :) Better for me since my legs are not just leg tassels! And last I checked the quads & glutes were two of the biggest and strongest muscles in the body.
  • I wonder if maybe the amplitude of your kick is too big? I think lots of people with poor kicks use the kick more for balance than for propulsion. In your case maybe your legs are getting out the streamline of your body and acting as brakes.
  • That said, the legs are not as efficient at translating force into forward movement... Really? My underwater dolphin kick is about as fast as my sprint freestyle. If you're using your legs just for balance, you're missing out on an opportunity to swim faster. Now if there is a physical issue, e.g., inflexible ankles, then that's more of a problem, though you can work on ankle flexibility.
  • the arms can be oriented perpendicular to the plane of movement , whereas the feet cannot. I don't know, if your ankles are flexible enough then can come pretty close. Have you ever seen UW videos of Phelps kicking? His feet are flopping around like fins. I found this one of me, and I'm old and inflexible (with tiny feet) compared to Phelps: forums.usms.org/album.php
  • Hey Fort why not swim your crawl and use the dolphin kick instead of a flutter kick after the 15 yard mark. Never done that George. But I assure you I'm not just using my legs for balance when I sprint freestyle or backstroke. I can flutter kick too. :) Look, kicking is hard and doesn't happen overnight. It's a long term project, and most people don't feel like dedicating the time to it. I can understand that if they'd prefer to use their training time otherwise. But let's not pretend that a fast flutter kick isn't important.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    No idea why one would only want to use half the body to swim ... If you have time to work on your kick and are motivated to improve, check out: forums.usms.org/showthread.php Yeah, given a choice I would totally want my legs to be helping out. The odd discovery is that they were not helping me out at all when I was swimming... so if they're not *adding* to my arm power, wouldn't I want to save my energy for my upper body/rotation? Not sure how much plantarflexion (toe pointing) is needed to have a kick that propels you forward... when I sit down and point my toes as much as I can on the wall, the plane of my foot is in line with my shins... so my toe is about 4.5 inches up from the floor. Like debugger, I'm mainly a breaststroker... my feet are naturally rotated outwards when I'm standing. SO might outwards oriented feet slow down a freestyle kick? When I think about it more maybe when I kick down then the water goes to the side instead of down or back... maybe I should try turning my feet inwards (pigeon toed). That said, this is during practice. IN races, I kick like crazy and my legs are definitely helping me then. But there's very little synchronization going on, it's basically kick as fast as I can with emphasis on the downbeats, and keep a steady rhythm with the arms. The problem is I don' t have the energy to sprint kick during workouts for all my swimming... Fortress, thanks for the suggestion. I'll try doing a couple all-out kicks this afternoon. Gator, you speak of kicking "drills". Care to share any of these drills? I hadn't really thought about "drilling" kick before. I don't isolate components of the kick, I just isolate the entire kick with a kickboard (but maybe that's what I should try too.)
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I am also a believer of limited kicking, I see many swimmers who kick hard and they are not getting faster just wasting energy. Try it you may surprise yourself. Use the big motor (arms) not the little motor (legs). The legs are not part of the body they are just an attachment. No idea why one would only want to use half the body to swim ... If you have time to work on your kick and are motivated to improve, check out: forums.usms.org/showthread.php
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Mine is also rubbish, but I do find that I keep a consistent kick and I can't imagine being better with no kick at all, unless we're talking major distance (which I don't do!).
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