It is obvious that the new team scoring rules for National Championships has not achieved the purposes for which it was designed. At 2009 LC Nationals, many relatively small teams were classified as "regional teams" because their LMSC is so small that they all compete together at Nationals (ie., MOVY with 25 members), and many huge teams were not classified as "regional" teams because there were multiple teams in their LMSC (ie., IndySwimfit with 125 members). If the intent of the new rule was to prevent large teams from overpowering small teams in team scoring, the current rule has produced a ridiculous result.
I don't know why USMS abandoned the concept of Large Team/Small Team scoring years ago, but this concept would seem to work much more equitably. Some might argue that it is difficult to draw the line between large and small teams, but I think it becomes pretty obvious if you look at the Team Rosters from this year's meet. If the Championship Committee made this determination prior to each Nationals after the entries closed, which is the way they used to do it, if I remember correctly, we would minimize the potential problems with setting an arbitrary immutable limit for all Nationals.
First and foremost, I nor YMCA Indy SwimFit DO NOT "Control" teams/workout groups or clubs. YMCA Indy SwimFit is a YMCA sponsored program, with 2 Full Time Coaches and 8 Part Time Coaches, and all of the coaches are employees of the same YMCA. We use 3 YMCA facilities, 1 high school, and a university pool to accommodate the fitness swimmer, triathlete, and competitive masters swimmers who are members of our program. We offer 8 workouts a day Monday thru Friday and 2 on Saturday, with a coach on deck at all times. The workouts are provided by our Head Coach, and are the same at each location. It is not uncommon to have 30-40 swimmers in each of the two Saturday practices. We are a true "Club" by any one's definition, at this years LC Championship we had 17 swimmers who swam in their first Nationals and 23 swimmers who swam the relay day only. There are 5 other clubs in the Indianapolis area, three of them I have been working to develop Masters Programs for their membership within their facility. These clubs and their facilities see the value of having an adult aquatic fitness program for their members who have chosen aquatics as a means of exercise for a healthier lifestyle. Additionally, it has created an additional revenue stream for them during these tough economic times. Individual clubs create new membership and develop new leadership. In Indiana today we have 17+ Clubs, when we only used to have one and the US Masters Swimming membership growth in the LMSC is in direct correllation with number of new clubs. When it comes to club scoring everyone knows in a "Age Group" meet, the more swimmers you bring the more points you score. For example if Illinois Masters brought 200+ swimmers out of their 1500 membership there would be no way ISF could win...They didn't and we did...
Mel that is probably the most words you have written in one sitting in years...got your attentuon eh?
So let's talk some more...I think your organization is outstanding and a model for others to look at. However the debates that have raged here for YEARS about team scoring always go back to one distinction between combined teams and clubs...and that is a "true" club (others definition) is one that trains together at ONE facility.
So how "fair" is it that you have multiple satellite pools "combining" to swim at a club against someone like Walnut Creek?
By the way, who are the other masters teams that train in Indianapolis again?
GReater INdiana (GRIN)
State of Indiana
GRIN is not only the name of the LMSC, but it is also one of the registered clubs. Swimmers who join the GRIN club can swim for their local workout group within the GRIN LMSC boundary, but outside the GRIN LMSC boundary swimmers swim for the GRIN Club. The GRIN LMSC officers provide guidance for those swimmers who join the GRIN registered club. Local workout groups may have their own fees to cover expenses. If a swimmer wonders if there is a workout group near them, contact Babs Larsen, the GRIN LMSC Registrar for a contact.
Healthplex
Indianapolis, IN
Eileen Davis is the Healthplex Masters Swim Coach. To learn more about the program, contact Eileen at 560 West Poplar Street, Zionsville, IN 46077. She can also be reached by phone at 317-873-2367 or by email at edavis2@indy.rr.com.
First and foremost, I nor YMCA Indy SwimFit DO NOT "Control" teams/workout groups or clubs. YMCA Indy SwimFit is a YMCA sponsored program, with 2 Full Time Coaches and 8 Part Time Coaches, and all of the coaches are employees of the same YMCA. We use 3 YMCA facilities, 1 high school, and a university pool to accommodate the fitness swimmer, triathlete, and competitive masters swimmers who are members of our program. We offer 8 workouts a day Monday thru Friday and 2 on Saturday, with a coach on deck at all times. The workouts are provided by our Head Coach, and are the same at each location. It is not uncommon to have 30-40 swimmers in each of the two Saturday practices. We are a true "Club" by any one's definition, at this years LC Championship we had 17 swimmers who swam in their first Nationals and 23 swimmers who swam the relay day only. There are 5 other clubs in the Indianapolis area, three of them I have been working to develop Masters Programs for their membership within their facility. These clubs and their facilities see the value of having an adult aquatic fitness program for their members who have chosen aquatics as a means of exercise for a healthier lifestyle. Additionally, it has created an additional revenue stream for them during these tough economic times. Individual clubs create new membership and develop new leadership. In Indiana today we have 17+ Clubs, when we only used to have one and the US Masters Swimming membership growth in the LMSC is in direct correllation with number of new clubs. When it comes to club scoring everyone knows in a "Age Group" meet, the more swimmers you bring the more points you score. For example if Illinois Masters brought 200+ swimmers out of their 1500 membership there would be no way ISF could win...They didn't and we did...
Mel that is probably the most words you have written in one sitting in years...got your attentuon eh?
So let's talk some more...I think your organization is outstanding and a model for others to look at. However the debates that have raged here for YEARS about team scoring always go back to one distinction between combined teams and clubs...and that is a "true" club (others definition) is one that trains together at ONE facility.
So how "fair" is it that you have multiple satellite pools "combining" to swim at a club against someone like Walnut Creek?
By the way, who are the other masters teams that train in Indianapolis again?
GReater INdiana (GRIN)
State of Indiana
GRIN is not only the name of the LMSC, but it is also one of the registered clubs. Swimmers who join the GRIN club can swim for their local workout group within the GRIN LMSC boundary, but outside the GRIN LMSC boundary swimmers swim for the GRIN Club. The GRIN LMSC officers provide guidance for those swimmers who join the GRIN registered club. Local workout groups may have their own fees to cover expenses. If a swimmer wonders if there is a workout group near them, contact Babs Larsen, the GRIN LMSC Registrar for a contact.
Healthplex
Indianapolis, IN
Eileen Davis is the Healthplex Masters Swim Coach. To learn more about the program, contact Eileen at 560 West Poplar Street, Zionsville, IN 46077. She can also be reached by phone at 317-873-2367 or by email at edavis2@indy.rr.com.
